Mine is that Discovery should have been a series taking place in the Picard era.
The Wrath of Khan ruined Khan’s character.
Khan was introduced in the episode Space Seed, where his crew of genetically-enhanced tyrants are discovered hibernating on a ship, having been kicked off Earth centuries before. It’s a wonderful episode about opposing moral perspectives, and we get the positive and negative views on both.
You could say it’s about slave/herd morality versus master/strength morality, or you could say it’s about compassionate humanism vs tyrannical domination. Both these perspectives are given their space in the episode.
Khan talks about how they were actually persecuted for their reproductive schemes, how that’s an infringement on their freedom. That makes him somewhat sympathetic, but at the same time he accepts nobody’s rules except his own.
The most interesting part is how the crew of the Enterprise are actually enamoured with the strength, charisma, and freedom of the tyrants. The final scene (after they defeat Khan) show the crew almost lamenting how they can’t do the kind of tyranny that Khan does. They want it, they kind of respect it, but they acknowledge the importance of equality and rule of law, so they almost-grudgingly agree that they did the right thing by defeating him.
When they defeat Khan they exile his crew once again to a harsh planet.
Ultimately the episode demonstrates why fascism will always be alluring to men and women, and also why it’s important to make sure that it doesn’t take over.
Then we get The Wrath of Khan. Khan is no longer charismatic. There’s no philosophical discussion. Just a revenge story. And this is somehow the version of Khan we remember!
You could argue that Khan’s vengeful turn is what happens when the spirit of freedom is crushed and ostracized. That would make a good arc, and a good psychological study. But none of that is discussed. He’s just a bitter, resentful loser who will stop at nothing to hurt Kirk. Khan as a character is ruined, and the story isn’t even ten percent as good as the episode where he was introduced.
Edit: I had the name of the episode wrong.
This is such an interesting take, because I have such a different one!
I maintain that, in his anger, in his vengeance, he was right. Being exiled to Ceti Alpha 5, when no one knew that Ceti Alpha 6 had exploded years ago and destroyed the habitability of Ceti Alpha 5 (oh my God, no one thought to check on the marooned Khan and his people in fifteen years?) means that he was a victim. And there was no justice.
I still thought of Khan and his people as charismatic and strong and intelligent- but victimized by Kirk, they were correct to seek revenge. What was done to them was not justice. It was cruel and unusual punishment. I also found it a testament to their strength that they survived for 14-and-a-half years on that hellhole.
Loved your comments. Love the different perspective!
I’m not necessarily saying he was wrong (although his mission is a race to the bottom). And yeah, the victimization could explain his deterioration from a great man to a warped vengeance-seeking psycho. But as a character there was nothing interesting going on there. He’s just a generic Bad Guy, for the plot.
But I like your points. It’s nice to see some Khan appreciation!
Mine is that Ahsoka has become a bit overrated over the past decade. Yes, we grew up with the clone wars, we saw her grow into a fantastic character, and yes she deserves the attention she’s getting. But everything she’s in now seems to be just to get adult fans nostalgic for their childhood. I’m worried that I’m going to stop caring the next time Disney makes a new property about her. It’s hard seeing my childhood die in front of me while I watch.
Moral of story: stop making sequels. I want another season of Andor!
Edit: I might be illiterate
This is the best comment in the whole post. No apology necessary.
Confirmed, Star Wars and Star Trek are in the same universe!
Yes, but one was in a galaxy far far away
You’re not wrong though
🙊🫣
Wasn’t she a grown up in the comics long before Disney sunk their teeth in?
I wouldn’t know. But it’s not like that would change the fact that whenever she gets trotted out it feels like they are just doing it for the Nostalgia
I feel the same way about any IP remake these days.
Enterprise is better than people give it credit for.
If the theme song were magically, retroactively changed to Archer’s Theme, the show would automatically be considered twice as good with no other changes.
I’m convinced I’m the only person on the planet that thought it was a banger.
IIIITTTSSS BEEEN A LOOOOOOOONNNG ROOOAAAADDD
GETTING FROM THERE TO HERE
You are. You totally are…
My mother used to sing along. Would you like her number?
Is she hot?
Hot as fuck. She looks like me with a wig. /s
I’ll roll the dice
A lot of banger songs don’t belong in a Star Trek intro.
You take that back
ngl I actually thought the official intro was some kind of fan edit.
should have gone 7 seasons, too.
The cast and special effects were great. If the writers trusted the premise that this was going to be a straight origin story without temporal cold war bullshit, the series would have been a lot better.
The Romulans as the big bad for the series was there the whole time.
The TCW was a network mandate. So was dumping the TCW.
I just started the last season of it yesterday.
Congrats, That last season is the best season of television.
Not the best season of Trek, the best season of any show.
Errr… I still think Babylon 5 Season 4 is the best of television, but you have to have invested in 1-3 first.
I’m gonna say it… feel free to eviscerate me…
Babylon 5 was too melodramatic for me. I hated Vir but by my memory, his and G’Kar’s acting in the final seasons was admittedly a master class. Everyone else was overdoing it, especially Delenn.
I think you mean Londo instead of his assistant, Vir. But yes, Londo and G’Kar were amazing.
The entire arc of those two are simply genius, and some of the best story telling, writing, and acting - full stop. And I’m a Firefly fan, so that’s saying something.
Yeeeessss sorry, it didn’t feel right but my memory is not great and it’s been probably 15 years, so thank you for the assist!
investment kinda goes without saying when it comes to television. The view from halfway down is probably the best single episode of television ever produced but if you’ve never seen any other episode of Bojack it’s … a bunch of talking animals?
But yeah B5 is up there for me too, for sure.
Enterprise is a great series marred by some the worst writing for a female character in the history of science fiction.
I can’t fucken see shit on the new ship sets except for on SNW. They all adopted Klingon lighting or something and even my glasses leave the scenes like the end of GoT.
I have that problem on my televisions, it turns out, it’s bad implementation of HDR.
Turn HDR off on your devices and the picture is instantly bright and clear.
I’mma try it out. Thank you, I always blamed it on my IT job destroying my eyesight always looking at screens up close.
It’s particularly bad on my Samsung sets, their HDR implementation is a known bug and there’s no way to disable it on the television itself, all you can do is disable it on connected devices.
Then I find, everytime my Roku, Xbox, or Playstation gets an update, I have to disable it again. :(
Still, better than watching a black scene in a coalmine. LOL.
HDR on:
HDR off:
Oh then I’m screwed I’m just streaming from the TV. I only do it occasionally but this might make me watch Star Trek on my computer instead lol cause those screencaps you posted match my experience exactly
Depending on the streaming service, a $99 Roku box might be worth the investment.
Wow. That’s actually pretty horrendous.
Borderline unwatchable with it on.
That first pic could be my TV. I’m going to try this tonight, thanks 🙂
You should look into some “gaming glasses”. Best Buy has them for like $50 but you can get some off Amazon for $12 instead.
Or you should check into using something like Flux or the built in one for Windows (macOS has one too) for night mode.
We got some newer monitors in the office a few years ago and had to enable it because the blue light was giving people headaches. But the warmer colors helped decrease that a lot.
There’s no actual evidence that blue light hurts your eyes, but it can affect your sleep. Instead you should worry about the distance you sit and the brightness relative to the room, as well as making sure to take regular breaks.
It might not have been causing any actual health issues, but it felt like too much on the eyes when we were sitting in relative darker areas and for longer periods of times of exposure.
Using the night mode helped a lot with that intense feeling we were feeling. Getting the glasses has helped with the feeling for myself.
I stole a pair of those from Best Buy in 2011 lol they work okay. Its the screen proximity. My eye muscles are used to viewing things up close so they stay restricted.
Jeffrey Combs is awesome. That is all.
That take is hot as an Andorian winter, pink skin.
Shran is one of my favorite recurring characters in any series. So is weyoun.
Do…people not share our opinion?
not sure if that’s a hot take…
Picard should have died in season 1 of PIC and the rest of the seasons should have concentrated on the new crew gallivanting across the galaxy in their newly christened ship, “The Picard”.
SNW should never have killed off Hemmer.
Cumberbatch was miscast as Khan.
Totally agree about Cumberbatch.
Cumberbatch should have been Gary Mitchell. He’s got the right vibe for a man losing touch with his humanity as he’s consumed by his godlike abilities, and a movie expanding on Mitchell would cover more new and interesting ground than plagiarizing Wrath of Khan.
The entire franchise should be handed over to Simon Pegg.
He has the most thoughtful understanding of what Star Trek is suppose to be since Ronald Moore, Jeri Taylor, and Ira Steven Behr.
would like to read more about this. I know he’s a fan, but I’m just cringing at the idea of the Cornetto trilogy expanding into Delta Quadrant…
Tasha should have stayed.
Well then, my hot take is going to be that she was miscast and it was to the show’s benefit that Worf took over as security chief.
100% she got burned. She was so cool.
They should have given her a ship and made her captain somewhere else. She deserved better than that!
They sort of did.
Yeah and she was a good Romulan.
The 90s aesthetic doesn’t make the second gen series unwatchable, but damn if it isn’t hella distracting. (It’s the hair. And the wardrobe. But mostly the hair.)
Picard was the best captain, but Sisko was the best.
I’d call Picard “Sir”, but I’d call Sisko “daddy”.
That’s…I have to admit that is true for me also.
Someone needs to do a “Hawk” edit of DS9 where it’s exactly the same except Avery Brooks is wearing sunglasses in every scene.
Keiko wasn’t that bad of a character. She wasn’t a great character, but the biggest problem was that her actress, Rosalind Chao, had very poor chemistry with Colm Meaney, who in turn had great chemistry primarily with Alexander Siddig, and also with several other actors. This wasn’t a problem when she was cast in “Data’s Day” as the bride to be with nervous bride energy, if anything that’s an asset in such a short time frame. But then expecting that to work in what is supposed to be a long-term marriage is what led to perception of her being all MIIIIIILES all the time.
Now, I don’t know that mid to late 90s Star Trek producers would have been on board, but they should have written an amicable divorce plot for the O’Briens. Miles and Keiko clearly grew apart from each other over the course of the show. Between her extended trips to Bajor and the way she all but threw Miles at Kira, they were already about 85% of the way there anyway. A divorce would have been a great way to resolve that issue, and use Star Trek as it was always intended: to explore real life issues in a scifi universe.
Wow that is hot.
Vulcans are a completely unbelievable race. There is absolutely no logic to being so diafainful to other races yet it’s pretty much universal amongst Vulcans.
I don’t know, I actually like the whole flawed idea of vulcan logic. Throughout the different shows we come to understand that ‘vulcan logic’ isn’t some weird alien “their brains work differently” thing. They used to be violent and emotional, and they came up with a social system that helped solve that, and ushered in an age if peace and progress.
But “logic” isn’t a meaningful method to live a life, it’s a very specific tool for certain types of problems. Even our primitive earth philopshers have identified many problems with thinking that we could live life purely logically, as Hume puts it "Reason Is and Ought Only to Be the Slave of the Passions”.
So we’re not seeing a bunch of transcendent android minds, we’re seeing the equivalent of a bunch of recovering alcoholics clinging desperately to a worldview that they cannot question, but that is itself “illogical”. So their disdain for other races is partly a consequence of their general directness and not holding back criticism, but also an anxious defence mechanism of people who know that even their indoctrinating school system and constant peer pressure might not be enough if Vulcans feel like it’s okay to like humans or whomever, because that’s only one step away from “well, if they’re doing okay why can’t I fall in love and cry and laugh!” and that way lies bloody civil war and a return to barbarism.
Which is why Old Man Spock is the best vulcan. As he said, “Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end.” In his old age, he learned to understand and value the role emotion plays in our lives and how logic is best when it works together with emotion. That T’Lyn seems to have learned this from him specifically and is going down the same route makes me really happy.
A culture behaving illogically is the most realistic thing in the world.
So much of the Vulcan culture is just exhausting.
Rewatching The Search for Spock… there is an insane amount of religion in Vulcan culture.
The Vulcans do a lot of ritualistic and mystical stuff but the difference is the shit they do seems to actually work.
We first see planet Vulcan during Amok Time. Spock pops the one stiffy he’s allowed every decade so they rush him home to get laid only for his wife to invoke her right to a cucking ceremony.
Next time we visit Vulcan, they’re inches away from awarding Spock the medal for Most Dead Inside but he’s disqualified at the last minute.
The Search For Spock is entirely about reuniting Spock’s soul with his dead and resurrected body. Mind you, Spock died of radiation sickness from fisting a warp core in the previous movie. His torpedo casket miraculously soft-landed on the Genesis planet, and existing there as a corpse resurrected and quickly aged his body but kind of as a caveman, no education or socializing. He had copied his mind into McCoy. So they go get his body, and bring his living yet blank body and the guy his mind is in to Vulcan. Sarek then asks T’Pau to do the brain FTP ritual. She replies “What you ask hasn’t been done since ages past and then only in legend.” It’s played as if Sarek is just now springing this on her, like he didn’t call her up at the start of this going “Hey they’re gonna go get my son’s body, can you do the brain FTP ritual for him?” He puts T’Pau on the spot and yet they’ve got the two slabs and the gong there all ready and she nails it on the first try.
BREAKING NEWS: I was making a joke about it being the File Transfer Protocol ritual but in re-watching that scene they call it the Fal-Tor-Pan ritual so it canonically IS the FTP ritual and now I’m going to bed because my day won’t get better than that.
To recap: They have a ritual for “Here’s his blank but living body and a guy with his mind in him, could you fix this?” just ready to go. This scenario has come up at least once before in Vulcan history so it’s still in their high priestess training manual.
And it WORKS. They’re not a bunch of superstitious faith healers they produce demonstrable results. It involves robes and gongs and magic words and priestesses standing around but it’s all real (in-universe). How much of it is for the sake of ceremony and how much is science is up for debate but they get it done.
As much as it is fun to revisit legacy characters and settings, they need to do a complete break, TNG style, and set a show somewhere where we can have new adventures with new characters. Lower Decks is somehow the closest to doing this and it’s a member berry show. The constant revisiting (and retconning) is slowly suffocating the franchise.
Yeah, somewhere in the 26th century when time travel is the final frontier would be cool. An entire ship of historians infiltrating alien history.
Could be a combination of Loki and Dr Who.
They need to actually give a full look into the economics of the federation. Yeah, it’s space communism. But I want more specifics.
There’s a recent episode in Lower Decks where they liberate a planet from capitalism… by essentially taking all the “worthless” gold and jewels and giving it to Space Pirate Royalty to broker a peace deal between them and the Federation.
I don’t doubt that the majority of the occupants of said planet are now happier not having to grind for capital…, but apparently having capital is still an immensely useful resource that the Federation is happy to, uh, quietly commandeer in lieu of payment for its, uh, services to the planet(?)
I still need to catch up on the latest season(s?) of lower decks. And given the fact that lower decks is a comedy, and borderline non-canon, I’d take that with a giant grain of salt.
Energy-to-(organic)matter conversion + futuristic power generators makes feeding your population a triviality. That simplifies just about any economic system, which takes a lot of the complicated stuff out of government and class hierarchies.
But Star Trek is a fictional utopia, much like Communism.
In reality, corruption would still mess up government in a “real world” Star Trek. I’m a casual Trekkie, but I don’t recall much detail about the Federation’s or Earth’s government structure. Do people still vote? Is it a benevolent military dictatorship? Who knows? And who cares? It’s not really relevant to the themes of the shows.
Star Trek is founded on liberal ideas popular in the mid-20th century that humanity could achieve unity and peace if it just cast aside superficial differences like race and gender, allowing us to focus on exploring the universe once we’d gotten over fighting each other. That’s the very core of the entire franchise and I’m fine leaving it that way, unscrutinized, since it clearly doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. It’s like how the force is best left a mystical property of the universe in Star Wars, rather than science-ized with medichlorians.
That simplifies just about any economic system, which takes a lot of the complicated stuff out of government and class hierarchies.
Right, but they very clearly don’t get all of their food out of a replicator, nor do they use the holodeck for things like hair cuts. There is still people who serve as cooks, waitresses, barbers, etc despite the technology being there to not need those jobs.
And that’s what I want explored in more depth.
I’m a casual Trekkie, but I don’t recall much detail about the Federation’s or Earth’s government structure. Do people still vote? Is it a benevolent military dictatorship? Who knows? And who cares?
I’ve been dipping my toe in the books. At least in the first book for PIC, The Last Best Hope, they very clearly still have political struggles for power, corruption, tribalism, and voting. It ain’t a dictatorship, but the goals and views of the government leaders aren’t wholey benevolent.
A particularly good example was the Federation council member Olivia Quest. She’s a rep from a border planet, whos been facing some issues with the romulan star going supernova, and all the immigrants that are mayhaps being sent their way. So she raises a big stink over any and all help towards the romulans. It’s self serving, selfish, and tribalism, but she was voted in and she wasn’t alone.
All of this is very familiar to real life. But it’s the exact kind of details I want, but on one of the shows. They made it interesting in the books, they could just as easily make it interesting in the show.
That’s the very core of the entire franchise and I’m fine leaving it that way, unscrutinized, since it clearly doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.
Maybe the tech of replicators/transporters/holodecks should be left unscrutinized, because ultimately it relies on technobable for it to be compatible with a suspension of disbelief. But I don’t think the same goes for the societal structures of the federation. It worked in the Last Best Hope, I think it could work on the screen.
Measure of a Man is legally and philosophically nonsense. It doesn’t grapple with any of the history of questions around consciousness, and there has got to be dedicated JAG officers on the Enterprise who are better equipped to handle the case.
I’m 100% with you on this one. Riker takes off Data’s arm and turns him off and that judge is like “you make a good point!”
Get Crusher in there to put her in a coma and amputate her arm and see how inhuman she feels.
Shit, take away Giordi’s glasses. Take away any prosthetic from anyone. Removing the arm was dumb.
Turning people off is also astonishingly easy. Turning them back on is a harder trick, but we do it on the regular.
Especially when you can just stick a hypo to their neck with some kind of future stimulant that apparently has little to no side effect.
Riker takes off Data’s arm and turns him off and that judge is like “you make a good point!”
Everyone except that ass scientist who made a case that Data isn’t a person was faking being convinced and/or being convincing. To prevent the ruling from being overturned.
How about the position they put Riker in? “You will prosecute this case and you will do a good job of it and if you don’t I’ll immediately rule in favor of the prosecution.”
