(not my OC nor my OP, just helping spread the message around:-)
Great but I already do as much as I personally can handle. Would be great if society at large, e.g. laws, regulations, and big corps, could get on the same level.
Me: dusts off hands Installed solar on the roof, bicycling to work, updated the insulation on all my windows, and drastically reduced the amount of plastic in my life.
Tech Company Next Door: CONSUMES 70 MwH OF POWER FOR TWO YEARS STRAIGHT POWERING AN UNOPTIMIZED AI
Me: Begins flipping through a copy of How To Blow Up A Pipeline
Don’t blow up the pipeline, that’ll pollute the environment! Go for the pumping infrastructure, if you can knock out a pump you can decrease or even completely stop the flow of oil.
id guess pumps are more expensive to fix too. but also probably better guarded.
eh, I don’t think that’s gonna make much of a difference:
most of the cost is probably lost revenue from the stopped flow, not the pump itself!
that said you’re almost at the ideal target already!
it’s best to sabotage the nexus point nearest the pipeline source: that way you knock out the largest part of the network resulting in the most damage by disabling most of the network!
tl;dr: knock out infrastructure as close to the source as possible, that isn’t actually the source!
(because sabotaging the source is a really, really bad idea, see: every oil spill ever)
(and for fucks sake, don’t do any of this in winter…people might freeze, if there’s no time to come up with alternative energy sources…which is why late spring is the best time to blow up a pipeline! :D )
“guarded” is usually a fence and some cameras, maybe a locked door. Honestly an easier target than any buried pipeline. Kind of surprising we don’t see more ELF action on this front, except for the whole ‘get sent to jail forever to make an example of you’ thing.
That’s what this post is saying. Do YOUR part. That’s all you can do.
That’s all you can do.
It’s not “all” you can do, though. At what point does “eco-terrorism” turn into “justified self-defense?”
If eco-terrorism is what YOU can do, then that’s what you can do. I can’t do that, so I’ll do my part as best as I can. I can’t save the world alone, so I’ll just do my best.
If everyone, including corporations, did their best, we’d be in a better place.
Tuesday.
I agree, many of us have maxed out passive improvements. Now let’s work on active.
Call your local oil company CEO. Get a job at Exxon and really half ass it. Visit your town government and demand better public transport and electric busses. Take a dump on the nearest gas pump.
Only some of those are jokes and I’m not sure which.
Don’t poop on stuff you don’t own.
Don’t poop on stuff you don’t own.
Bad news for everyone who rents their home, and thus doesn’t technically own a toilet :(
Above a certain threshold there will be no discernible difference in the outcome to our civilisation.
The planet is fine. The people are fucked. G. Carlin was and is right.
No offense, but this is exactly the kind of active pessimism that this post is trying to combat. The only mindset that creates positive change is active optimism. In other words, hope for better and taking action to try and get there.
Note that this is not to be confused with inactive optimism. “Everything will just work out on its own”. That also doesn’t work.
Active pessimism is the most damaging mindset, though, because it actively drains others of their will to make things better. Feeling hopeless is real and understandable, I’ve been feeling it, too. Spreading it around and shutting down those who are trying to do better isn’t the way to process it, though.
No offense, but this is exactly the kind of active pessimism that this post is trying to combat
I agree with you, but I’m not sure the post is really effective for that goal.
Fucking hope police with their unscientific view that honest assessments and factual information are less important than optimism.
The OP’s tweet is wrong.
This is undeniable.
There are certain limits past which feedback loops kick in and after which our actions won’t matter.
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We shoudn’t rely on carbon capture, the technology is still at an embryonary stage and will not be ready on time to have a significant impact. Nor on a nuclear winter, for obvious reasons.
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FYI: wrong user; check names again ;)
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Carbon capture and nuclear winter won’t do a goddamn thing if the clathrate gun goes boom, and it is looking like it has:
And that single release, equivalent to two years of human output, is the tip of the spear.
Hope police want to argue that if we are calm about things and don’t point out the dire situation we’re in, we’ll somehow manage.
It’s the same argument as telling a passenger in a car driving towards a cliff at 50 mph, close enough that seconds matter, to not yell ‘CLIFF! BRAKE!’ Because it would demoralize the driver, and should instead calmly inform the driver that we might have some problems if they don’t stop applying pressure to the gas.
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Except that this is the argument that hope police give to people screaming to pull the brake. Not just to people black pilled.
Okay. But every minute we can delay reaching that threshold will be worth it.
To me it’s the same as the US democracy right now. Yes it’s far too late to see no ill effects and we are already facing the consequences, but every act of resistance to unlawful, immoral and unconstitutional orders slow them down, and with enough co-ordination may slow them down enough before Trump and the oligarchs become truly unstoppable.
For any issue that effects our world’s existence, stand boldly and take action. Don’t let the fear of the inevitability of it consume you.
In fact, they are already unstoppable. History showed us many times that when autocrats are in full power, they keep it forever, unless they lose a war or die without having planified their succession. And don’t talk me about the Biden example, his presidency did not prevented an unpreceded harm by the GOP.
It’s precisely this mentality I’m arguing against (the unstoppableness of Trump, that’s what he wants you to think).
People only have power over you, if you obey their command. MAGA obeys Trump, that’s why Trump has power over MAGA. Whether he has power over the rest of America depends on how much Americans want to defend it from his ongoing attacks, which are happening right now and will continue. “Right now” means that it’s not too late. Giving up and conceding means giving Trump a free pass to wreck the USA.
Your statement is extremely naive, because when a politician establish a rule, you are legally forced to follow it, and believe me, the authorities don’t care about the means to enforce the said rules if they don’t want to follow them. Resistance to Trump will lead to increased repression, you should not forget he is a known authoritarian. If you want to risk your freedom -if not your physical integrity- to set yourself above the law, good for you, but don’t incite people to do so.
“The Earth will just shake us off like a bad case of fleas.”
It’ll at least determine how many species survive. And the threshold to total human extinction is very high, so every ton of co2 is part of a life saved.
There’s a clear difference between being in big trouble and being completely screwed. If we can avoid the extinction of humanity and go with catastrophic disasters and famine that eradicates vast majority of the population, we should totally do it.
Ideally, we would avoid all that, and go back to the good old days. Every small step towards that goal is worth it, although taking longer steps is highly encouraged.
Is climate change an extinction level threat? I’ve never heard that.
I think we’re firmly in “catastrophic disasters and famine that eradicates vast majority of the population” territory.
It’s a question, as you said, of how severe the disasters and famine will be.
Is climate change an extinction level threat? I’ve never heard that.
I read somewhere before that the release of methane from the melting ice caps (?) could create a knock on effect of global warming turning the Earth into another Venus
How much of that is actually true I never looked further into.
The planet has previously been 15C above current levels due to flood volcanism so earth turning into a Venus just straight up isn’t happening. It is potentially mechanically possible but we’re talking conditions so extreme that we couldn’t make it happen even if we wanted too with our current level of technology.
Actually, level of warming that could directly wipe humanity is technically possible, even the hopium dealers among climate scientists admit that (notably Michael E. Mann). But even if it doesn’t kill all of us directly, it will likely generate a domino effect for other existential threats.
This is highly speculative, because climate science is fiendishly complex, and the error bars in these estimates are as wide as the solar system. However, there is a concept called the “runaway greenhouse effect”, in which the global average temperature spirals out of control, roasting the entire plant. Not exactly the kind of concept you want to think about too much.
its to late, its over, to prevent catastrophe.
its not to late to ensure we have a minimal catastrophe instead of a maximal catastrophe.
NOT Uplifting
I strongly believe that there’s a regression of global society that will prevent humanity from surviving the next k/t level impact. I weakly believe that the climate catastrophe that we are headed toward currently will cause such a regression. I weakly believe that if we don’t take global action in the next 4-5 years, we will be unable to avoid a catastrophe of that scale.
I don’t think the current global leadership can be convinced through lobbying. Non-violent opportunities to replace the global leadership are dwindling. When/if only violent means remain, I will simply enjoy what wealth I have until I am extinguished by the Glorious Revolution as the Bourgeoisie scum I will have become.
Actually, it’s too late, because those in power are accelerating in the wrong direction and we are less and less able to prevent them to do so.
And even so, given the current state of the society, even the “best case scenario” will be enough to make it collapse.
Yes, thats exactly the kind of useless, defeatest post and sentiment that the Op was talking about.
At some point, defeatism is just realism, no matter the amout of hopium people try to sell to you.
Then do us all a favour and remove yourself, if you’re going to go full nihilist and hopelessness. If all you are willing to do is be inactive and continue to consume then we’d rather not have you around doing nothing but contributing to the problem.
OR
Join the rest of us and DO SOMETHING! Fight for something you want, do you remember that feeling? Have you ever known it or have you always been this pathetic? And if you truly believe that there is no hope then why not end it all by taking out some of these polluting fuckers with you?! Don’t get depressed, get radicalised!!!
That’s the ticket! It’s always great when a random
idiotstranger on the internet agrees with you… (no, really:-P).
The post is right, but only on the paper, and not really in a world that is progressively taken over by ecocidal autocrats whose program is to kill every bit of efforts in climate fight, so even the smallest progress we made will soon be distant memories and fighting will be increasingly dangerous and difficult and, ultimately, virtually impossible. And the locked-in catastrophes are now sufficient to collapse our already fragilized geopolitical context.
People saying it’s “not too late” are systematically downplaying the current political context, wich make their message pretty unconsistent.
I didn’t get that at all from the OP, what I saw was “every bit matters so keep fighting.”
Yes, until the political situation make it unfeasible without being treated like a dangerous terrorist. The OP didn’t said it either, but she should have.
OP says “I am a climate scientist and thus is correct⬇️”, thus leading me to believe that it was the climate science under discussion, not politics.
If anything the current political context makes what needs to be done pretty clear. There’s a difference between downplaying the problem and realizing that if laying down and dieing isn’t an option.
So… It IS too late?
Kind of feels like in 20-30 years time we’ll be claiming its worth fighting for a climate that doesn’t immediately kill us if we go outside for 20 minutes instead of 15.
Or to put it another way, do these scientists not see there’s a difference between living and surviving?
You’re right, better just give up now.
Ok
God forbid someone tries to think past the next quarter.
If the future can’t be livable and people just wants a quiet suicide for the human race I’ve got good news. There’s a very easy solution for avoiding that discomfort that also happens to be the #1 way to reduce your carbon footprint.
But if you want to keep living and not just surviving, suck it up…
I feel like in a way, it is too late. The human race decided it doesn’t care to fight climate change. There is going to be significant disruptions, especially near the equator. But on the other hand, even if we overshoot our climate targets, there is always a chance for us to reverse the damage dealt using technology and by reclamation of ecosystems that have been destroyed. I think as long as our species survives we can fix things. But we need a massive, massive change in attitude to muster the political will to do something.
A few billionaires and rich old assholes decided not to fight climate change. They have a disproportional amount of time behind the mic.
Yeah, it kinda seems like humanity wants to ride that tiger
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You’re confusing completely averting things, with mitigating how bad they are.
Well, at this point, we’re fucked. The only difference now is how fucked we are.
It’s the difference between “really bad” and “even worse”.
It’s just a question of how bad we’ll have it at this point.
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I was going to argue that you only need wait for the US to surpass the UK in silencing dissent, but then you said civilized.. I’m not so sure that the US can compete based on that metric anymore.
I don’t believe in the possibility of mass civil disobediance, especially in a context where most of people are either depolitized, either are voting massively for (wannabe) autocrats.
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Ok, got it. No burning at the stake. We’ll use guillotines.👍
A bit sad how pessimistic everyone is. Renewables are currently becoming the most economic way to produce electricity and even states that do not care about the environment are investing in it. EVs are making progress as well. And while it is true that a lot of damage has already been done and we will face the consequences, I also feel that decarbonization is inevitable even from a economic perspective at this point. The speed at which this happens is variable though and determines how many people will die, this is why it is important to not be pessimistic and hopeless but to try steering things in the right direction.
A bit sad how pessimistic everyone is.
Americans are pessimistic because we don’t have a functional democracy and our fascist oligarchs are too stupid to use their resources to fight climate change… And the rest of the world is pessimistic because the world’s most powerful economy and military has fallen to fascist oligarchy.
Nothing will change until we abolish the billionaires and replace our two party system with a modern multiparty parliamentary system with proportional representation
USAmericans have a religious attachment to fossil fuels that I can’t understand. “Drill baby drill” isn’t even economically viable and yet has become a call to prayer for many US politicians.
It’s rich people who want to keep being rich without risking going into a different thing.
Please stop attributing it to everyone, it’s really annoying
Who is voting for them and why do they win elections if there isn’t a substantial of people who support the idea? “Drill baby drill” isn’t a secret, it is what Republicans have been running on for over a decade.
Just slightly more people (who bother to vote) than who don’t. Doesn’t make it 100%, it’s not rocket science.
Many USAmericans are pessimistic because we were finally taking a medium sized step in the right direction, and somehow half the country thinks that’s a bad thing
Personally, the “renewable” energies aren’t making me hopeful. Because they are absolutly not renewable, they can’t be build without pollution because of the materials you need. And even so, climate change is not even the worst of our existential threats, there are many more, but strangely, people are only talking about climate.
Human history consists of us solving problems which then create more, bigger problems.
Agriculture was a trap.
Some might say also… The Internet?
Mind elaborating on the other threats?
Soil depletion, (micro)plastics in the water, biodiversity collapse, political instability, economical crisis, nuclear menace that is not a thing of the past anymore, sanitary crisis that will likely be worse than COVID, to name a few.
Soil depletion is solved by climate change by freeing up frozen arable land of countries that are basically under a blanket of ice for the whole year
True. The Middle East is the fastest growing renewable market after China and the Middle East already has very low fossil fuels and electricity prices. Of course they don’t have absurd tariffs on Chinese renewables.
The Middle East would rather sell their product to other people than use it themselves.
“Never get high on your own supply”
OPEC members have excess capacity. Saudi Arabia for example can produce an additional 3 million barrels per day without having to do anything or spend anything. So no, your assessment is wrong.
Hmm
Remember that it can always be worse. Even if it’s irreversible in our lifetimes, it can always be hotter and more extreme.
I was going to present a partial rebuttal invoking politics but then I saw that this is [email protected].
Another positive is that we humans are highly adaptive. We’re already making a lot of changes towards renewables and improving the efficiency and reliability of our electric grids and other large infrastructure. Climate change definitely brings a ton of challenges with it (and some of the changes have already taken place) but I think it also gives us new opportunities such as longer growing seasons up North.
I don’t think healthy skepticism is forbidden here, so feel free to write your rebuttal.
She is right, but the thing thats missing is that this isnt co2 you will keep in a container in your garage. So if I dont use a petrol car, this doesnt remove the petrol. It just means someone else will burn it.
Unless there is supply-side constraints or CO2 capture this has 0 effect
Some humans are more adaptive than others. The ones that have been sitting around with their heads in the sand aren’t going to survive.
Whether or not people survive is going to depend a lot on luck, unfortunately. People in low-lying third world countries are gonna be in the tightest spot.
STOP TELLING MY POOR ASS THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS ON ME
every bit of conservation i do in my life is undone by a billionaire in a weekend. I am done being blamed for it and having the responsibility thrown at my feet. At this point the best way any one of us can do something meaningful is if we all pull a Luigi. But these memes and articles that put ask the climate change responsibility on the lower classes are nothing more than billionaire propaganda
This Tweet isn’t blaming you.
To me, this argument sounds like someone trying to justify their own littering because corporations don’t dispose of their waste properly.
We are all drops of water that make up an ocean. Billionaires are important too but it’s also the fault of lazy people who put old TVs on the sidewalk instead of ewasting them. Everyone’s actions add up.
You are downplaying scale. Drops of water can fall on a plant for years. Pour a one ton bucket on it and it’s dead in 20 seconds. We are not all “drops” of water. I try to be environmentally conscious in my actions not because I believe it makes a real difference, but only to keep myself from being a hypocrite. The only thing different between a hypocrite and a billionaire is a pile of money.
I still do my part, but it’s for my own integrity, not for saving the world.
This is a well established climate-change-laggard argument. It’s the whataboutism logical fallacy.
Why should I take action, at great personal cost, when someone else is not taking action and will in fact benefit from my burden?
The Australian (and other) governments hide behind this same excuse. “Australia is just a small country, why should we take action when our CO2 production is just a small portion of that of other countries like China?”.
I mean it’s a good point, billionaires are worthy of great criticism, and Australia should be putting pressure on other countries, but at the same time we as individuals really do need to be taking action.
I do agree that polluting corporations use this narrative and I also find it infuriating. It’s particularly palpable with plastic producers, as in plastic pollution is not their fault, but the fault of consumers failing to recycle. It’s not the fault of consumers, it’s the fault of regulators, who are elected by voters who are also consumers.
In summary, the whole thing is fucked and everyone sucks, but you still have to tidy up your own shit.
GO TELL BILLIONAIRES ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE! I do not want to hear it anymore, it’s not my fault, it’s not my responsibility and I can do absolutely nothing to fix it. Stop telling poor people about climate change, that’s like yelling into a hole. Go after the ones doing it, and if you think telling you that billionaires and corporations are responsible for climate change is whataboutism, you’re brainwashed by the rich
How can we tell billionaires about climate change? By voting. Poor people vote.
They don’t give a fuck about voting. Make their life miserable everywhere they go at the least, bust out the guillotines would be ideal.
I can’t believe I have to say this but, us poor people need to elect representatives that will regulate the fuck out of billionaires. This might surprise you but plenty of poor people vote for representatives that will be mean to other poor people, rather than those who will regulate billionaires.
You still think you live in a country where those representatives exist or have a hope in hell of being elected. Bernie couldn’t even gain the support of one party, how would a progressive gain the entire country? You are far beyond the voting phase of things
Sadly I think you’ve missed my point.
I’m not sure this tweet counts as news?
A fair concern. It’s no peer reviewed research article that’s for sure, but it was somewhat news to me and may be to others who likewise did not know and/or needed to hear it.
“News” here meaning from an authoritative source (though I did not confirm that this person even so much as exists, much less is actually a climate scientist) and bringing information that is not trivially already known to the audience.
A lot of the “news” focuses on the tipping point (to be able to reverse the effects of climate change), thus leaving a gap between that vs. what we are now desiring more to know: just how fucked are we all?
But if it needs to be removed, that’s okay with me - I don’t want to mess up the community’s implementation of the rules.
