• Unruffled [he/him]@lemmy.dbzer0.comMEnglish
    174·
    8 months ago

    Just a quick update, lemmy.world has posted an update that explains their decision here: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/16795373

    TLDR is that the person who removed the community is fairly new to the mod team and didn’t realize there was a bit of a history to this situation. Also, looks like they are sticking with the decision this time around though.

    Please don’t harass the lemmy.world admins/mods though - if you don’t like the situation you are free to register here or on another instance. And if you aren’t a lemmy.world user, then this doesn’t affect you at all.

    I’m proud of our community here, and it’s their loss, not ours! pirate captain giving the thumbs up

    • updated the link
    • Excrubulent@slrpnk.netEnglish
      79·
      8 months ago

      The translation is, “It wasn’t us don’t get angry, but also it kind of was one of us and also we are sticking by the decision so it may as well have been us.” I don’t really see that it matters if the story is true - in the best possible case they’re just saying that they don’t have a way of setting policies and having those policies be followed.

      If we’ve learned anything from centralised platforms it’s that size doesn’t protect platforms from the consequences of making bad decisions.

    • Dasnap@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      17·
      8 months ago

      Guess who just created a second account 👍

      Would be nice if there was a Firefox extension or something to ‘merge accounts’ as a workaround. Make things a little easier in situations like this.

  • Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    206·
    8 months ago

    Why are people joining .world to begin with? The entire point of this is to decentralize. Joining the by far largest instance beats the entire purpose.

    Join smaller ones like lemmy.one, lemmy.club, lemmings.world, lemmy.zip etc. We might need to start specifically recommending against .world and for general purpose instances like those.

    Also, funny how even reddit allows r/Piracy but not .world lol

    • Blaze@dormi.zoneEnglish
      103·
      8 months ago

      Sync had Lemmy.world as the default instance to register a new account (might still be the case, I’m not sure). One of the factors for sure.

      • optissima@lemmy.mlEnglish
        96·
        8 months ago

        So does Voyager, Raccoon, and Eternity. Everything is just defaulting to it and it’s infuriating.

      • Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        68·
        8 months ago

        The dev really needs to change that then.

        Perhaps have a system of selecting randomly from a set of hand-picked general purpose instances at sign-up, where having less people gives it a higher chance of being picked (if it’s of at least a certain size of course, to prevent spam etc)

            • Blaze@dormi.zoneEnglish
              3·
              8 months ago

              The issue is not about the implementation, but the filter: which criteria do you use to select instances that are eligible for the pool of instances? I’m genuinely asking because I think it takes some time to have a look on instances for people to make the best choice.

    • JohnnyCanuck@lemmy.caEnglish
      69·
      8 months ago

      Why are people joining .world to begin with?

      Because how it works when you first join is very confusing, and why you would choose any particular server is not clear at all.

      Also, people want to join something that is bigger and more active because it feels like it would be better (more stable, more content, etc.)

      • Evoliddaw@lemmy.mlEnglish
        17·
        8 months ago

        In all fairness I applied to 5 Lemmy instances when the Reddit downfall started, including .ca and .world. .ml to date is still the only one to have processed my application. It may have been due to lots of applications at the time but the sheer fact my application is still pending on the other 4 instances leads me to use the one that actually works as opposed to the first one I chose.

    • Blóðbók@slrpnk.netEnglish
      55·
      8 months ago

      Because they have no basis on which to decide where to go. It’s like buying toothpaste but there are hundreds of options, none of which you know anything about, so you get whichever seems most popular. It minimises the risk of ending up with something which is unpopular for good reasons.

    • SSJ2Marx [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      42·
      8 months ago

      Joining the by far largest instance beats the entire purpose.

      There’s kind of a tension here between Lemmy’s design and what makes most people join social media websites. Most people want the biggest, most centralized website.

      • Handles@leminal.spaceEnglish
        6·
        8 months ago

        And instead they get the entire network no matter what instance they sign up for. Well, somewhat less than the entire network, apparently…

        (I say this knowing full well how many think they’re “on the internet” even though they never leave Meta’s corporate web)

    • Gianni R@lemmy.mlEnglish
      34·
      8 months ago

      Lemmy.world is also notoriously mismanaged and has had dubious privacy issues in the past, such as their Discord situation regarding user messages

      • Nom Nom@lemm.eeEnglish
        8·
        8 months ago

        dubious privacy issues

        They’re also federated with threads so I wouldn’t be surprised at all. I’m a fool for sticking around in there as long as I have.

        • synae[he/him]@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
          7·
          8 months ago

          Some people were forced away from Reddit and don’t subscribe to that idea (yet?) - maybe they will understand that after being here for some time, but I know when my reddit app stopped working I just wanted something to fill the void

        • kugmo@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          1·
          8 months ago

          People want lefty reddit circle-jerk, but don’t want to use the official app or mobile website.

    • zarkanian@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      20·
      8 months ago

      If you join a small instance, the chances are higher that it will a) be poorly maintained and b) fold quicker, forcing you to find another instance to join and re-subscribe to all your communities.

      • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comMEnglish
        18·
        8 months ago

        so long as you’re regularly exporting your profile, moving instances isn’t a big deal anymore.

      • Bilb!@lem.monsterEnglish
        3·
        8 months ago

        I run my own instance that technically does have open registration, but I can’t really recommend anyone actually sign up to use it. It’s not running on very powerful hardware, and my commitment to keeping it running 24/7 is “as long as it stays convenient and interesting.” There are probably many, many of those. But there are a good collection of second and third tier instances now as well, I’m not to worried about .world’s popularity so long as they don’t do something like switch to a federation allow-list rather than a block list.

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comMEnglish
          3·
          8 months ago

          If by open registration, you mean without approval, I strongly recommend you add an approval step, due to spam.

          • Bilb!@lem.monsterEnglish
            1·
            8 months ago

            I’m aware of the risk, but so far the captcha seems to have prevented any mass sign-up, and none of the few other existing accounts so far have any activity. That said, since I have no intention to support a user base anymore, I probably should close it anyway.

              • Bilb!@lem.monsterEnglish
                1·
                8 months ago

                Agreed, and I don’t intend to stop at the moment. When I wrote “close it” I meant registration, sorry about the ambiguous language.

    • spyd3r@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      13·
      8 months ago

      Everyone should leave that instance, the admin and the mods on that instance are big time thought police and will find excuses in their vague rules to delete your posts and eventually ban you if your views go against the grain.

      • Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        16·
        8 months ago

        Banning users with certain “opinions” isn’t a bad thing on its own, but on .world that grain seems to be the corporate-bootlicking grain of Reddit.

        • QuietCupcake [any, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          3·
          8 months ago

          I think it still has highest number of posts and comments per day or something? It’s no longer the highest number in terms of users, but there is some basic metric of activity where hexbear still is quantifiably at the top. But anyway you’re right about the quality, that’s what’s important.

    • yukichigai@kbin.social
      9·
      8 months ago

      Also, don’t put all your eggs in one basket: diversify, diversify, diversify. Make a main account, but have more on at least one other instance. Instances go down for maintenance, software gets updated, owners change moderation policies, so on. If you can’t get to Lemmy through your main, use your secondary.

      Personally I use lemmy.sdf.org as my secondary. It’s run by a bunch of retro-enthusiast Unix nerds who more care about the functionality of the tech than anything else. No blocked communities there, and AFAIK they haven’t defederated from any instance outside of ones that were hacked/compromised. That does not mean you can just go there and be a shitbird though, they do have standards.

      • somethingchameleon@lemmy.caEnglish
        2·
        8 months ago

        Yeah, I was cool with sitting on lemmy.world until they did something that I wasn’t cool with.

        I’m not loyal to them, or anyone else. The more choice, the better.

    • somethingchameleon@lemmy.caEnglish
      7·
      8 months ago

      I think it’s fine to have a main instance, as long as that main instance isn’t gung-ho about censorship like lemmy.world has become.

      Although I definitely agree with recommending against joining lemmy.world.

      Such a shitty decision by biased mods and useful idiots. They deserve to lose power as a result.

    • rambaroo@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
      5·
      8 months ago

      I don’t disagree at all but I can kind of understand why a lemmy instance would block piracy communities. Reddit has many millions of dollars and a squad of lawyers to back them up, lemmy admins don’t.

    • Bellatired@beehaw.orgEnglish
      3·
      8 months ago

      Lemmy is confusing enough for people who are not used to its idea. Everybody new and with FOMO immediately went for the bigger instances.

    • Cyyy@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      1·
      8 months ago

      why? because it feels safer to join a big and longer lasting instance than a random one with almost no users. such small instances can vanish from one day to the bext. i once created a account on such a small instance and not even a week later it was wiped from earth, taking my account with it. so it’s no wonder people chooser rather bigger instances.

    • Wes_Dev@lemmy.mlEnglish
      9·
      8 months ago

      Why would Reddit ban it? It’s an easy way for them to collect users’ IP addresses for their corporate overlords.

      • D61 [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        37·
        8 months ago

        The optics of a potentially publicly traded company (what ever happened with the Reddit IPO thing?) openly having a “how to steal other companies copyrighted work” forum is more of a negative than IP farming with no method to actually do anything useful with the IP addresses.

        • Tak@lemmy.mlEnglish
          7·
          8 months ago

          I think Reddit would have to tackle the mountains of porn too for those optics.

          • D61 [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
            10·
            8 months ago

            Porn is less of a legal liability than copyright claims is my guess.

            Also… like… if somebody is dumping money into Reddit as a user of Reddit, which is more likely to make them stop: killing the piracy forums or the porn forums?

            • Tak@lemmy.mlEnglish
              6·
              8 months ago

              It’s not about the legal liability and more that publically traded corporations only want profit. Reddit would need to cater to advertisers who would not like all the porn, it’s why Tumblr and Imgur removed the porn.

              • D61 [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
                7·
                8 months ago

                Specifically, the executives and shareholders want their Publicly Traded Shares of company stock to be increasing in value. Advertisers are good for getting long term holders of the stock to keep holding and buying, but everybody else is looking to quietly pump up the numbers and sell what they can without upsetting the apple-cart.

                I’d bet a shiny metal dollar that after the IPO starts, the porn subs will slowly start being winnowed down. Give it a few years and if any exist they will be private.

    • kratoz29@lemm.eeEnglish
      5·
      8 months ago

      It hasn’t banned it, but they turned it into a meme community, which can be worse than being banned.

    • fuwa@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      36·
      8 months ago

      I have four accounts on the four instances that host communities I am interested in.

      It’s a mild pain and definitely not what we were promised, but I guess that’s the only way federation can really work in practice (especially considering when an instance is blocked user on the blocker side just continue to see it frozen in time, with no warning as to what’s going on)

      • Arthur Besse@lemmy.mlEnglish
        24·
        8 months ago

        It’s a mild pain and definitely not what we were promised

        I think this is precisely what the ActivityPub model of federation promised, actually 😅

      • somethingchameleon@lemmy.caEnglish
        6·
        8 months ago

        I think a solution would be to have instances without communities.

        It sucks, but I’m really trying to find instances with the most federation. I’d rather censor things myself than to have some useful idiot do it for me.

        “Instance A blocked instance B, so now we have to use instance C to communicate with both.” Seems kind of roundabout, which is why I’m looking for the ‘ever-C’ instance that federates with the most.

        • Mic_Check_One_Two@reddthat.comEnglish
          9·
          8 months ago

          I mean, the real end solution is to host your own server. Then you can federate/defederate with whoever the hell you want. As long as you don’t do anything to get banned from a specific instance, you’ll be fine.

          But that’s more work than most people are willing to put into a Reddit clone.

          • neo@lemm.eeEnglish
            1·
            8 months ago

            If you’re technical enough you can fight or bypass instance bans/defederation

          • yeehaw@lemmy.caEnglish
            1·
            8 months ago

            Good call, I may have to drop the docker into truenas scale one day…

        • Croquette@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          2·
          8 months ago

          The issue is that depending on where the Instance is located can mean that the person is liable for the content on their instance, or at least some corps will try to take them to court over that.

          It would be really nice to have something you’ve described, but then who hosts the community and becomes liable?

          • somethingchameleon@lemmy.caEnglish
            1·
            8 months ago

            Someone’s always going to be liable, that’s unavoidable.

            I’m just spitballing ideas for how we can always connect to the servers we want to.

            @[email protected] hit the nail on the head. Self-hosting would be the end goal, but it’s too much of a hassle for most people to go through.

            So a few servers that exist solely to connect with the fediverse would be ideal for those people.

          • viking@infosec.pubEnglish
            6·
            8 months ago

            Takes away some of the anonymity though, even with domain registrar obfuscation etc., they’d probably disclose the owner to a request from whatever authority comes knocking. And if you’re based in a jurisdiction where piracy is explicitly forbidden, federating with db0 and effectively co-hosting links to prohibited content might open a whole other can of worms. And not everyone is technically competent enough to run and maintain an instance, even if the initial setup works out with one of the how-to’s.

          • neo@lemm.eeEnglish
            4·
            8 months ago

            and if you’re really technical and really want to you can even bypass other people’s defederation attempts against you.

      • JCPhoenix@beehaw.orgEnglish
        2·
        8 months ago

        Same. Beehaw is my main, but I also have a Kbin account (which I know is technically different), and then a LW account, which I almost never sign into.

        Even my Mastodon account is separate. It’s fine this way. I don’t need everything on one account. With a password manager, it’s not like I have to remember passwords anyway.

    • Danterious@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
      54·
      8 months ago

      The part that annoys me is that this was done silently even though last time they said they would ask their users. Hopefully it was just an admin that didn’t get the last memo.

      Edit: the community -> their users

      • rar@discuss.onlineEnglish
        9·
        8 months ago

        I suspect something involving law enforcement or legal. Still would love if LW admins updated on this.

    • Blaze@dormi.zoneEnglish
      35·
      8 months ago

      Indeed, especially with 0.19 that allows you to migrate your subs and block lists in two clicks

      • Gort@lemm.eeEnglish
        2·
        8 months ago

        Wish that was around when I moved from lemmy.world to lemm.ee some time ago. It would have saved me a bit of time. Nice that it’s there for the future, though.

  • Simon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    70·
    8 months ago

    If any admins of lemmy.world are around, I created [email protected] for the explicit reason of sharing copyright protected music. Can you ban it too? Wouldn’t want to get you guys in trouble with mommy and daddy.

  • sabreW4K3@lazysoci.alEnglish
    60·
    8 months ago

    A few of the bigger instances have been very open about the fact that they’re anti-piracy, anti-porn, etc and removing this community is par for the course with such a stance.

    What does that mean for the average user? It means there’s more incentive to move to better instances. It’s when instances have such a monopoly on users and communities that people should not only move, but advocate for other people moving to smaller instances.

    Also a major benefit of not being federated by large instances is that there’s less surface area for search engines and thus resources last longer.

    • Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      9·
      8 months ago

      Imo the issue here is that how Lemmy works right now, or maybe just its apps, seems to have the trend of pushing most people onto the largest instance(s) like .world

      If the point of the Fediverse is to have a decentralized userbase, that trend needs to be reversed.

      Even if we give .world admins the benefit of the doubt and say they got in legal trouble or something this time, having a userbase properly spread across many instances would prevent that instance from being the obvious target.

  • kratoz29@lemm.eeEnglish
    49·
    8 months ago

    I moved to lemm.ee from .world the last time they banned these communities, as a momentarily fix, never cared to look back as here was better managed, no censorship, quicker updates and no noticeable downtimes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

      • Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        11·
        8 months ago

        Honestly, seeing enough of their posts and discussions over the months turned me from left-leaning to a full-blown commie

      • kratoz29@lemm.eeEnglish
        11·
        8 months ago

        I did with a tool I found in GitHub long ago, I think that is not needed anymore as Lemmy has included a similar tool within the user web page settings.

      • kratoz29@lemm.eeEnglish
        3·
        8 months ago

        Yeah, it was very annoying because Lemmy.world was down very often, not their fault in most cases though.

        Did this ever get fixed?