Title. Interested to see the response from different religions
Edit: Stating your religion would be appreciated. Lack of religion counts for the purpose of this question. Also let’s not downvote people for differing religions, all voices are welcome here. If no; why?
Anti-religious atheist here.
You know what…years ago I would have said “no”. Imo, often fundamentalist religious people have views that actively harm society through systemic actions. So it’s not something I am able to generally sit well with.
However, years back I met someone irl (not online) with absolutely polar opposite political and religious views as me. I am an atheist who actually opposes the concept of religion in general and I am very liberal. This person I know is very Catholic and conservative. They are a hardcore Trumper and I have always seen him as a dangerous threat to the US.
Yet…
Over the years, this person has legitimately become my absolute best friend. They are the kindest, funniest, most wonderful person I know. I absolutely love spending time with them. We just don’t debate our polar opposite viewpoints. We still share and talk about deep, personal things…but we don’t instigate political debates or anything like that. I take their views as someone who has been brainwashed by society, and I’m sure they feel the same about me. But it means that I don’t see them as evil for their views and am able to easily look past that.
I don’t know what the fuck I would do in life if I ever lost them. Sometimes they are the reason why I look forward to the rest of my day.
We are not romantically involved or anything. They have a partner and a family, and I wouldn’t be interested with doing that with this person anyway.
But the point is, it taught me that I can have a very deep, personal connection with someone with polar opposite views. Ideally, I would like for a partner to share my views. But life has shown me that it is possible to be opposite like that and still really deeply care for and enjoy someone.
How do you reconcile their views on deportation, human trafficking, LGBT stuff, etc etc etc etc etc with you finding them to be a “wonderful” person? Personally anyone who believes in what Trump is doing is by definition a monster and any niceties they may show other people is either psychopathy or because you happen to be the right color. It’s like the standard bad date test; if they’re a shitheel to their server, they’ll eventually be a shitheel to you too.
I remember bringing up some LGBT stuff to them before. I told them that I initially started questioning religion because it was upsetting to me that my sibling would be sent to hell simply for being gay. Interestingly, they seem to not believe the anti-gay rhetoric of their religion, which is a relief. Trans issues are another matter which does frustrate me a bit…they seem accepting of some trans people in general but have some unfortunate other views on the matter. It is difficult sometimes to reconcile stuff like this though, I agree.
No idea what they think on deportation, but why do you bring up human trafficking? Human trafficking is pretty universally seen by everyone as a bad thing, even Trumpers.
People are individuals and while most of them might lean a certain way, they often have some views that don’t fit the stereotypical mold of their demographic if that makes sense. I found out that my friend was vehemetly against bombing Iran despite being a Trumper.
As another example that is likely to yield me downvotes, I would consider myself an incredibly liberal person. And I do sympathize with someone like Luigi. But I am very opposed to weirdly celebrating what he did like most of the internet seems to do. Compassion and understanding? Hell yeah. Celebrating shooting people? Not so much. I never talk about this with others because I know how unpopular of an opinion it is on the internet. But I brought it up to my Trumper friend and she feels the exact same way.
We are all individuals with our own views and you’re not necessarily going to stumble across the “perfect match” with anything. Part of human relationships is learning who you can and can’t get along with and working through the points that don’t mesh as well. I don’t know what I’m babbling on about really.
there was a show about muslims dating non-muslims in michigan, the guy had to commit to islam to even date the woman. it might be problematic if you arnt one and the other requires religious conversion.
if its associated with right wing political views, no thank you.
No. I couldn’t be with anyone who actually takes religion seriously. It just wouldn’t work.
Edit: personally I consider myself an Antitheist.
Marry me
who needs tinder when there’s lemmy ?
Best way to find a boyfriend who knoes his way around Linux
I’m atheist, and my partner was Muslim when I first knew her.
People say it doesn’t mater - but honestly it really fucking does.
Imagine being in relationship with someone who never really left North Korea, deep down. There’s so much fear, so much fear-driven obedience, and so much fear-driven defense of the indefensible.
I never really understood the concept of freedom of conscience until I was arguing with one of her friends about Amina Lawal, the Nigerian woman sentenced to death by stoning for adultery - with her sentence delayed until her baby was weaned. Despite being really very progressive at heart, my partner ended up arguing in favour of it - and then later on was seriously pissed off at me for making her defend that.
She ended up deconverting several years later (certainly not at my behest), and things got immeasurably better from then on.
But that’s not a possibility I’d recommend banking on. My honest advice is just don’t go there, it’s far more stressful than you think it is.
Damn that is hardcore
I am atheist and my wife is Buddhist. While not exactly true, I view Buddhism more as a philosophy and it is more palatable in that regard. My tolerance for people practicing religion is also fairly high as long as they don’t try and “convert me”.
As a result, I have been to plenty of ceremonies for things over the years and it doesn’t bother me. Of course, I don’t believe in any of that “magic” but there is usually loads of good food that comes attached, depending. (Also, there is a high probability of after-hours gambling and drinking which was cool when I did that stuff, at least with the Asian crowd I roll with.)
+20 years married into a Buddhist family, if you were wondering about that.
Am also atheist, I have an extreme…distaste for religion in general. There are some that I find easier to mesh with, very dependent on the person in particular. But I have some long married friends with vastly different religious views and they work out somehow.
Oh, I get it. My distaste for religion runs deep as well. However, in my own direct experience, I have not seen any overt religious-driven nasty behavior in my years around Buddhism. (Not to say that it doesn’t exist, but I haven’t seen it.)
For the record, I grew up in an extreme Southern Baptist area, and still hold the belief that all those fuckers are all pure evil.
Buddhism seems like one of the easier ones to mesh with, yeah. Thank you for your response, I appreciate it very much!
I’m a Buddhist/Atheist. There is far less to fight about here than between Christians/Atheist. I’m sure I’m a “bad” Buddhist too because I take the philosophical bits that make sense to me and leave all the deities and supernatural stuff alone, but Buddhists don’t seem to mind and most atheists don’t either.
Atheist. In general I don’t have a problem with religion, as long as it doesn’t get uncomfortable. By that I mean stuff like forcing or forbidding me to do stuff. Not believing in basic science is a hard no as well.
But I feel like that’s a problem that only part of the world has. Christianity in the U.S is a fucking cult. I don’t think I could date anyone from that hardcore believe system. I’m from germany andI am yet to meet a christian that believe in the bullshit parts. Like believing in what the bible says alone is fucking weird to me and pretty much novody exeptfor hardcores does that here.
So I’d say for methe line is at “cult” level
“Not believing in basic science” should be complete turnoff for anyone ngl.
Imagine your life partner saying if they have any kids they don’t want to vaccinate them cause autistic people go to hell or some bs.
Also for Christianity in the US thing.
I am a pretty religious Muslim (maturidi) and lived in Iraq before. I still find US sects like Mormonism too extreme for even being roommates let alone marrying, despite being another Abrahamic religion.
I wouldn’t get involved with someone deeply religious. I’d consider someone religious if they were sufficiently wishy-washy about it, though, e.g. people who are christian and believe in it at least enough to not call themselves atheists or agnostics but don’t really DO anything christian.
Would you turn someone down for believing in heaven/hell/etc alone?
That’s potentially included in wishy-washy christianity. The important part is how they act on it. Though it certainly mystifies me how you can believe in that stuff and then act as if it doesn’t, but that’s kinda how people roll in my parts …
Atheist, married to a Buddhist. He prays daily and has his rituals.
Made it clear from the start that I’m ok with religion as long as they don’t try to convert me or harm others.
Aside some dietary requirements, it works quite well. Married for 9 years now.
This works quite well for us, but results and experience may differ based on religion, patience and personal beliefs. I imagine I might have a hard time dating a religious zealot though.
Same here. I am not interested in religion (so not even really atheist), wife is Buddhist doing Buddhist things. Married for 40 years this year, and it’s not an issue.
I won’t get romantically involved with anyone who deeply believes and allows religion, especially organized religion, to drive their lives.
I was raised Catholic. I have seen too many people use their religion to shirk responsibility for their evils.
Washington State mandatory reporter law changes are a great example. In the US it varies by state but in general, people in trusted positions like teachers, police officers, medical professionals, and counselors are required to report child abuse. Priests have had a special exception, even if they were acting as teachers or counselors. Last month, Washington removed the special exception for priests. The Catholic Church is now sueing to keep the right for priests to keep child abuse secret. Ponder that, these people who would put their magical ceremonies over the health, safety, even lives of children. What is the point of that religion? Because it sure isn’t about helping people live good lives.
And Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these … unless they’re being abused and you wait until you’re in the special room with me, chant some special words, and then tell me. Then fuck’em. No, literally, we’ll keep the pedophilia on the down low because the ceremony is more important than the kids”.
I’ll chime in myself here. Am an atheist, have dated hard core Christian women, Wiccans, and atheists. I’ve found that religion didn’t actively impact the relationship until it spilled over into daily life that my partner required I take part in. I actually really enjoyed religious history conversations with my more moderate partners. It started to break down when it was “shut up no debate this is how it is” and those are the relationships that ended badly.
Atheist here. Married a Christian who was into missions, taught Sunday school, etc…
Love is love and we don’t choose who we fall in love with.
I never once tried to convert her, or call out her beliefs. But over time (she was from a small religious (mennonite) town) she came to see on her own how the indoctrination was just a cover for a lot of evil shit that went down in the church, and in its name.
She is no longer Christian, and veers towards agnosticism, but when pressed would say she is now more aligned with animism, or the idea that nature is the only ‘face’ of a god that is not a conscious being, but is just the culmination of all the processes in nature.
I had a gf who considered herself Christian. Not someone who talked about it a lot, but I guess she has some belief. I have a fairly negative view of organized religion in general. She really wanted to start going to church and I was um, wow, sounds horrible. She looked around found a church with surprisingly cool people - not at all bible thumpers, or full of pretentious nonsense, hell and brimstone, none of that. They support LGBTQ, operated a homeless shelter, gave sermons about pro-abortion rights and astronomy. I was pleasantly surprised. Still I ended up determining that I didn’t want to wake up at 7:30 each Sunday to go there. I figured out that she viewed church more as a social club and some sort of tradition from her family.
If it was someone drastically different, like talking constantly about reading the bible and telling me I had to convert and basing half their life around it, absolutely not. I not only am not interested myself but I think it would illustrate some negative aspects of their personality that I don’t want to be around. I had a gf who owned a retail store and people would come in and tell her ridiculous stories about Jesus healing people when they were missionaries in Africa. Later she’d tell me and ask “Do you think that was true? Jesus really DID THAT?” and I’d have to be um… no. That lady sounds like a liar or a psycho, sorry. Not great for a relationship. It turned out it was just some feel-good thing for her. She didn’t read the bible or really know anything about scripture. Just thinking “magic jesus loves me” made her feel good. I’m only really vaguely religious but still I can’t respect that.
Eww, no, I’d never date anyone with religious views.
Fuck no. Organized religion is the source of most of the harms in the world. There is no man in the sky. You have no special blessing to be terrible to others.
Capitalism is responsible for most of the rest of the harms. And then a very small percent is the result of basically-bad people and mental health issues.
I mean, if you view certain controlling mechanisms that are weilded by terrible people as mere extensions of the terrible people, then it may be worth revising how much bad people have harmed the world.
Also I wish I could be as optimistic as you about how few terrible people there are in the world.
I’m an atheist. I dated a woman once who believed in spirits. I think she experienced night terrors among other things and interpreted them as supernatural phenomena. It didn’t cause problems then but I was a lot younger and I think now I’m less tolerant of that sort of thing. But who knows - I was crazy about her so maybe if I meet a woman I’m crazy about like that again then I’ll tolerate anything.
More recently I’ve dated people who believe in a vague sort of life after death but never someone who practiced any religion. I think I would immediately rule out practicing religious people if I were going through a list (as when dating online) but if I met someone in person, really liked her, and then found out she was religious then I’m not sure what I would do. It would definitely be off-putting.
The problem for me isn’t the lifestyle differences but rather my impression that religious people are missing the point about the basic nature of existence, when it really should be obvious. It makes me feel like I’m patronizing them, because to be frank I don’t tend to think of them as my intellectual equals. (And I know that makes me sound like a pompous jerk.)
Yea I kinda get the same feeling. Although for a lot of people their religion does not preclude the acceptation/understanding of a physical world, it’s a more of set of rites that they inherited and that’s part of their identity. There’s plenty of religious people who are scientists. For some, I imagine it may be difficult to reconcile.
I know that there are religious scientists and I think humans often compartmentalize beliefs in such a way that their belief about the supernatural doesn’t affect their assessment of real-world situations. I’ll even go further and say that often it seems like their belief affects their behavior much less than it logically ought to, with some (but not all) people who apparently sincerely believe in an all-seeing God and an afterlife still acting just like atheists in relevant situations. In this context, the fanatics are sometimes technically the more rational ones - I disagree with their premises, but their actions make sense if those premises are considered true.
It’s certainly weird how many people say that they believe and then just … don’t do anything that their belief says they should do.
I think people’s behavior is determined much more by social conventions and the expectations of their community (in addition to pragmatic self-interest) than it is by logical reasoning. I’ll risk being the preachy vegetarian by discussing people’s attitudes towards eating meat. Most people sincerely believe that cruelty to animals is wrong, and also that factory farming (if not all killing) is cruel. Yet they eat meat. I even know some people who started eating meat again after being ethical vegetarians. Did they change their minds about whether or not harming animals is bad? No. If pressed, they feel guilty but they don’t like to talk about it. The reason they’re eating meat is because it’s convenient and almost everyone expects them to, not because they reasoned from first principles. Likewise with religion - if no one else is giving everything away to the poor and everyone will think you’re crazy if you do rather than praising you, you’re not going to give everything away to the poor even if it would make sense to do so given what you believe.
Edit: Kidney donation is another example. I met a woman once who donated a kidney to a friend of her mother’s. This person wasn’t someone particularly dear to her, but she found out that he needed a kidney to live and she gave him hers. I think that what she did is commendable, but I still have both my kidneys. This is despite the fact that I sincerely believe that if, for example, I saw a drowning child then I would risk my life to save him. People would think I was a hero if I saved the child, or that I was a coward if I didn’t try. Meanwhile almost everyone I know would think I went crazy if I donated a kidney to a stranger. My relatives would be extremely worried, and they would try to talk me out of it. I’m not going to do something difficult, painful, and (to an extent) dangerous when everyone I know would disapprove, even if in principle I think risking my life to save another’s is a good thing to do.
I think your ideas here go into the right direction, but the confusing part for me is that many of the christians I know are so far below what you’d expect from a christian in these parts (which is already very little) - it’s not that they don’t give everything away to the poor, they’re doing (as far as I can tell) nothing - they don’t pray, they don’t go to church, and they don’t adhere to any of what the bible says they should do beyond maybe basic Golden Rule stuff. And it’s not even like most families would make a big deal out of it if you left the faith or even became fully atheist. Most do pay the church tax, though, which is about 1% of your gross income.
Here’s an incident that is only tangentially related to what we’re talking about, but it’s one that I found memorable. My grandmother was reading a tabloid newspaper (which she tends to believe) and it apparently had an article about UFOs. She turned to me and told me that, according to the newspaper, space aliens were real and visiting Earth. Then she went about her ordinary business - the thing about the aliens was simply an interesting bit of trivia for her.
I think her reaction was not in fact particularly unusual, but I found it baffling. The arrival of space aliens would be perhaps the most important thing that has ever happened to humanity. The entire future of the species would hang in the balance, and everything would hinge on what the aliens want. I know my grandmother very well but I still don’t really understand how she thinks about things like this. The best I can come up with is that she believes in many fantastical things and therefore just one more fantastical thing changes little for her.
This isn’t a direct response to what you’re describing but I think it’s relevant as an illustration of one way how the fantastical can be less important than the mundane for people.
