Each I is a finger, V is the thumb and index. X is crossing your index and middle finger.
Nah, the roman system developed from even older systems.
They’re tally marks, with a twist.
You take a stick and cut a notch, that’s one. This works up to a point, and that point is 4 or 5, when it becomes unwieldy, and our brains have trouble using the groups of notches.
So you need a new mark to denote a grouping. The v notch is basically adding a / to the already present \ or | tally mark, denoting that the new symbol represents a group of the previous ones.
Different methods have 3 base marks, with the fourth being the new one, others do it at five.
Roman numerals stop at 3 individual marks, and there’s no record of why. But avoiding 4 repeating symbols is consistent with the higher numerals as well.
Basically, once you hit |||, the next number with be the | subtracted from the next higher digit. It works with IX, as well as XL, XC, etc.
But, the idea you suggest is sometimes presented as a possible origin for the earlier systems. Thing is, other tally systems that originated separately follow the same basic concepts, without using the same V symbol, but using other cross marks. Not that it matters because nobody knows. Nobody back then passed the information along.
It does kinda make sense, but the idea that it’s the simplest way to make marks on sticks and stones does too
Nah, the Roman system developed from even older systems.
Before fingers
Ten is VV, and if you write them on top of each other, it makes X.
I’ve never heard of crossing your fingers like that to indicate 10.
Then you haven’t been to China. It’s a shorthand gesture there. The character for ten is 十 so I’m not sure if the gesture informed the character or the other way around. What is noteworthy is just that both cultures ended up with a cross to denote ten.
Possibly an archaic way? They also counted Base 12. XII is 12, fingers crossed plus the other 2 up?
The Romans didn’t use base 12. Roman numerals aren’t a positional system.
What about V for 5? There’s only 2 people I ever saw make a V with their hand. Spock, and Vader.
No, not Darth Vader. I mean the OTHER Vader.
Back to the Future’s “Darth Vader from the planet Vulcan” definitely threw one of these 🖖
I believe that’s some sort of religious Jewish blessing. Idk where I got that idea, maybe Lemmy.
TIL
I’ll admit, I thought “I’m sure I’d have heard that before if it was true”, but it appears to be the case! It’s apparently based on a gesture Leonard Nimoy saw during a blessing as a boy.
I guess it’s like the ICXC hand shape that vicars and priests use in Christianity.
These religious leaders and their hand gestures…
Yes, that’s right. I’m glad it prompted you to look for yourself, rather than dismiss out of hand. That shows something special.
ETA; there are also mudras. These religions are more closely related than it seems at a glance.
It’s archaic, we just don’t count like this anymore. Probably not since adoption of Arabic Numbers
I’m not really following you. How is iv or vi represented in your theory?
By turning your hand around.
…what? I am staring at my hand and turning it back and forth and I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about
Oh fuck… I get what you mean, i mean who knows they could’ve done this, although i can’t say for certain due to not being there nor being a historian lol, it cause also just be a coincidence or a shower thought. 🤔
IV (middle, index, thumb)
VI (thumb, index, middle)
What
Nobody in the history of the world has ever held those three fingers up to mean four or six
Many archaic cultures had words for 1, 2, 3, and “many”. You can see this tendency reflected in the Roman system where I, II, and III are obvious symbols, but IV introduces two new concepts: V for five, and the system where putting a symbol to the left represents that much less than the next symbol.
Therefore I think 1, 2, and 3 are based on counting on fingers, but 4 is where their system deviates.
