Been homeless over 6 years. My social services agency, high turnover. Being female , almost all my case managers have been female, standard practice.
Out of 17 case managers, only 2 have been male. Female cms: detailed, logical, responsive, solution oriented, clear effective communication. Male cms, the opposite.
I try to communicate clearly, effectively, which is easy cuz autism, and the 2 male cms, i get constant 2nd guessing, passive-aggressive defensiveness. Get impression they’re automatically assuming I don’t think clearly, don’t know what I’m saying. It’s weird, and I can’t figure out why.
I know not all men are the same. I’m not like all women. Have I just been unlucky with these 2 cms, or is there a gender aspect to this I’m not understanding? I’d like to learn.
A sample size of two is meaningless.
Exactly.
Two X in the same office - why are the X in this office this way?
This is called begging the question.
Absolutely. All questions that have an unsupported presupposition should be removed by the mods IMO.
Do you want fascism? That’s exactly how we get ants.
Fascist ants, on the march again.
Need at least 3 to justify sexism.
You need more than two to make sweeping observations about the whole population… if two of them were assholes then those two are assholes. Don’t move the goal posts.
I think we’re saying the same thing?
But separately, yes it is possible for men in general and women in general to behave differently. Sexism is when you judge an individual based on generalizations about gender. So it would still not be right to avoid male case workers just because other male case workers you’ve worked with were assholes, even if it were true that male case workers are more frequently assholes! Judge people for who they are, not the class they belong to.
I guess I misread your comment as being sarcastic in an awful way (i.e. two cases can’t be sexism but with a third you’d have definite proof). ADHD can do that sometimes so my apologies!
Ironic how one goes from pointing out assumptions based on internal fictions can lead to incorrect and often overblown external reactions… to blaming ADHD for the same. 😜🤌🏽
I spent a bit of time going through your post history to get an understanding of your background
In short I think your life experiences mean you’ve lost all trust in men. Not just your direct experiences but what you’ve observed in others.
As a result you enter each interaction assuming the worst. Every male social worker you engage with will confirm this pattern because that’s what you’re looking for. The - ah fuck here we go again - feeling.
For them, and I don’t expect you to have empathy for them, this is what they live - the outcomes of other mens behaviours. But - they were there and they tried. That is something.
You have changed quite a lot of your original post.
Thank you for this clarity. I hope the upvotes here aid your comment in maintaining visibility so that others, along with OP, can find the healing in such honesty.
Probably unlucky.
Try to recall whether you acted uncomfortable in your initial interaction with them. The first one due to surprise of them being the first male social worker working on your case. The second due to the unpleasantness with the former. The first impression usually sets the tone of a conversation, so there may have been a misunderstanding which then solidified into prejudice.
Or they were jaded asshole. Who knows.
The sample size of male social works is 2. Not even remotely a large enough sample to say anything at all about the group as a whole.
It’s not emotional, social. It’s mostly text communication. Like, “I’ll meet you at the front gate 215pm.” Female cm, we meet at the front gate 215pm. Male cm, 15 min later, im still waiting, then angry text from him saying he’s waiting somewhere else.
Ty for your objective response, btw.
It’s important to not stereotype based on a tiny number of samples. If i saw 15 white social workers who were mostly nice, and 2 black social workers who were rude, do you think it would be reasonable for me to say white social workers are nice and black social workers are rude? There are literally hundreds of thousands of social workers. You’ve seen 17 of them. And only 2 were men. Plus i bet they were mostly all from the same agency, so the person doing the hiring there will very much be filtering who you work with, and the individual doing the hiring at that particular place may choose to hire nice women and rude men.
Bottom line - I totally believe what you say about your personal experiences, but the number of men you worked with isn’t anywhere near big enough to say anything about men social workers as a group.
He sounds like a miserable person to have to deal with.
passive-aggressive defensiveness
Um, what?
If you had 17 case workers, then I guess 16 weren’t a good fit for you, not only 2.
That sort of job has really high turnover as most people find it soul crushing and quit.
Yep. I’m grateful for the people who choose this work. Sucks they’re constantly overworked, under paid, such a frustrating often thankless job. I try to remind them, hey rough job, but you’ve made a difference for me, so ty.
I’ve heard it can also be really stressful when they have cases where they don’t have authority or budget to help people because of buerecracy and rules set by politicians etc.
The result being the only people who survive in the job are people who’re unfazed by that, or learn to cope by not caring, which is probably the case with the two male case workers.
I text him. Ask him to tell doctor to fax insurance approval to pharmacy. Instead of doing that, he spends the next 3 hours sending me a series of texts criticizing me, telling me it’s my fault, not his, repeatedly pointing out, trying to get me to admit how irrational I was being.
All I’d said was “at the pharmacy. Can you tell the doctor to resend the insurance approval please?”
What the hell! I thought the previous example was miserable, this is even worse! Does he have a supervisor you can report him to? That’s not acceptable behavior for a person in his position.
It may be that the gender difference is magnifying any social/communication issues that are already there because of being ND. I know I’ve always found it harder to make myself feel understood by women compared to men, and I’m also autistic.
I’ve observed that both genders have different communication styles they expect to use, both with the same gender and with the opposite, and these are all the sort of dreaded unwritten social rules that we tend to struggle with as NDs. So a man tends to expect to conduct himself a different way with another man versus with a woman, and a woman expects to conduct herself a different way with other women than with men. The difference is subtle and mostly subconscious from what I can tell. Most people don’t realize they are doing it, but NDs are often paying attention to different things than what NTs are in terms of body language, word choice, social cues, etc., so we pick up on it more, even though we don’t always understand it.
Thank you. As woman with autism, it’s weird. Women nts, some tend to unconsciously expect me to behave like a woman. They operate with stereotypes, assume women should be emotional, touchy feely, into romantic comedies, etc. So when I’m logical, to the point, talk about math, science, some can’t compute. And some guys, they expect me to behave as a stereotypical female, treat me as such. Then they realize I’m not, am logical, etc, and their demeanor changes, start treating me as one of the guys.
I’ve met compassionate, emotional men, and analytical nerdy women. Just, so weird, how gender becomes such a big deal for some.
I know it is not your intention, but many of your comments imply that neurotypical women are incapable of logic. Or that they somehow deserve to be treated as if they are incapable of logic while you deserve better.
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Idk how this post isn’t in the red already for either the obvious troll post or just because of sexism. Stop trying to stir whatever pot of shit you’re stirring by pretending you don’t understand some “gender aspect” considering you claim these two people give you the impression that you don’t think clearly which implies you know you think clearly and aren’t an idiot.
Please be aware that Lemmy is, more often than not, extremely hostile and/or defensive towards female-centric issues or experiences, regardless of validity.
Edit: These downvotes tell me that folks are denying that this is an issue. Maybe y’all should ask / listen to women about what their experience has been discussing female-centric topics on Lemmy.
Yeah. Thought posting this to no stupid questions would be OK. No luck.
This makes sense considering who is here, but I would be very interested to see a Lemmy/kbin demographics survey.
Most of the female-centric Lemmy communities are now abandoned. I’m sure the hostility did not help that. Don’t blame them. I’d never suggest Lemmy as a space for women.
Damn, that’s fucking awful. What female-centric communities existed? I know what ones my wife follows on Reddit but not their analogues here
Edit: Nevermind. The Reddit communities i found with analogues here are dead AF. Even the big pooular stereotypical topics like Fashion, cooking, weight loss, wedding planning, cozy games, skincare, hair styles, TV shows, romance books, dating, are all dead here.
Goddam, Lemmy users literally scared all the women away.
A real life example of “Stop scaring the hoes”
I am increasingly unable to take this place seriously.
TwoXChromosome is also dead. Witchy-type instances are abandoned, too. It’s so sad, because I’ve had the most lively and supportive conversations in those places.
There is a grave problem with the Lemmy ecosystem system if women do not feel safe / comfortable using it.
“Stop scaring the hoes”
Come on man, do you think referring to woman as hoes is gonna help 😂
“Scaring the hoes” is a catch all term for when the things men enjoy in private or with other men create environments that are inhospitable to women.
I’ve always heard it in a comedic context, said with nearly the same tone as when Eustace berates Courage the Cowardly Dog.
That, as well as hostile to nuanced or complex political opinions.
Maybe it’s also industry-specific? I wonder if women more commonly get into the field out of a desire to help, and men get into it out of a desire to be employed.
Again, just spit balling.
Haha men bad.
Reading comprehension bad.
He was just spit balling
If he’s right, then I’m definitely bad guy.
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Oh my fuck.
It’s because the male ones believe their courses have informed them, and turned them into “knowledge experts” who know better than you. Where as female case managers believe their courses have made them better at connecting people to their resources and practices.
In short, whether conscious or not, the courses they do have different gendered outlooks and effects of participants.
One group becomes entitled ro superiority, and the others becomes a more connected listener.
But it might also be because men lack the lived experience most compatible with your own, and it’s possible they’re better at providing for male clients.
…but really I think women are just likely better at the job, and more likely to be sensitive to the needs of others in a more consistent and accurate manner.
I don’t think you’re imagining things at all. In my experience, women and gay men tend to be more empathetic.
That said, I just wonder how those men CMS behave towards other men, and how different you’d be treated by women CMSs if you were a man.
Also, I found this review that compares the differences in empathy between males and females[*]. I don’t have the time or energy for it, but it could be a place to start if you want to learn about the research on this.
I get the feeling the real answer is just sexism. Jobs similar to social work or just filing and paperwork anywhere tend to be majority female in my observation. Just like how manufacturing and other physical labor jobs are mostly men.
Studies have shown women in health care are better listeners than men. This may be true of social workers as well. But 2 jerks doesn’t really establish correlation.
In my own personal experience, I’m also autistic. I have found over my decade’s that statistically in my life men tend to be really sexist and often time belittle and think there superior to women and non-binary people. Often times in my medical appointments and such, I always request a women or non binary person as every time I had a man they just didn’t listen or cared and tend to guess for me instead of listening to me.
Your thoughts are valid and reasonable.
(This is not me saying every single man is like this, this is purely on my life and my experiences)
