If you’re from a non English speaking country, do you first have to learn English if you want to get into programming?
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No, they exist but they are rather rare.
Here is an example of a programming language that is completely in Russian: https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Встроенный_язык_программирования_1С:Предприятие#Пример_программы
That said, English is the lingua franca of the field of computing. You aren’t forced to learn it, but without it, you’ll deny yourself access to the vast majority of material out there, be it books, articles, papers, documentation, specification, and so on.
Not sure about today but VBA (in the MS Office products) actually had translated keywords because Microsoft is batshit insane.
Real world scenario happening to me:
Reinstall my win os to use French because a) back in the day you couldn’t just change language, b) scrips were VB written french (so si instead of if etc).
Hehe French programming. It’s probably like
essaye: faire_qqch() sauf OhMonDieuQuEstCeQuiSePasse: imprime("putain")Cf. WinDev
Cucumber/Gherkin also has translated keywords (even Emoji… smh) but there it actually makes sense because you actually write it in natural language.
I am sceptical of natural language programming in general but I am also fairly certain that you would have to do a lot more than just translate the keywords to get something that looks natural in another language. Word order is different in many languages for one.
Not programming but the question reminded me of Aviation English. All pilots and air traffic controllers must learn how to speak “aviation english” in order to communicate. It’s essentially a few hundred English words and basic syntax all related to aviation. I’d say learning a programming language is kind of like learning Aviation English.
Honestly, no. I do know English, however the syntax is always very far removed from actual sentences and learning how to use the syntax is way different from how languages work.
That said, you’re kinda porked when it comes to reading through documentations, APIs, and watching tutorials, as most of them are in English.
I do have about 2 friends though who can code and are not particularly versed in English.
I worked in a company that outsourced code.
The only English speaker, English was his fifth language and he would still struggle. We had to write followup emails after every meeting so he can take time to decipher my exact request.
All the deliverables were in broken English. If catch things like “reqiured” that were easy fixes. Code logic was readable, but not great. I mean it worked though.
I’m from a non-english country and some of my coworkers don’t speak English at all, so… no. That said, it’s very inconvenient and they use the google translator all the time (which is shit, told them to use deepl at least).
Anyhow, there are programming languages that aren’t English based: I don’t remember the names but, for example, there is one that uses Latin
Ideally, you need at least some basic understanding to use the vast majority of languages. The problem isn’t even writing the code itself, you can definitely just memorize the keywords and some basic concepts and have at it. If you ask me, the real issue is the availability, amount and overall quality of documentation and learning material if you go about it that way.
I have a few coworkers who skipped the learning English part and learned most everything from other non native speakers and they tend to be crippled by often not really being able to make use of official documentation or keep up with new things, since the vast majority of content out there is in English. It also has the unfortunate side effect of pushing them to stick with whatever it is they learned way back when and not really looking for better ways of getting things done.
So basically, you can pull it off without knowing English but it’s going to be suboptimal and/or painful IMO.
Bash commands feel like fake English to me. I know they’re abbreviations, but that’s the closest I felt to simulating that feeling of a non-english speaker memorizing commands to do something.
I love that, great analogy! I don’t think I’d ever make that connection since I’m pretty sure they both sounded about equally alien back when I was introduced to them 😅
This needs to be higher up, it’s the most correct and complete answer.
The French were working on an all French version of Cobol at one point, back when Cobol was still used.
back when Cobol was still used
try searching for COBOL on any big job site, it’s still in use today :)
Just maintenance work, for the most part.
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Not that you mention it, it’s kind of strange that Java isn’t based on Javanese
Or Brazilian Portuguese since they are the largest exporter of coffee beans :)
Brainfuck certainly isn’t. Most assembly languages use opcodes that are sorta English abbreviations, like STA for Store value in the A register. I haven’t done much work in assembly but I think there are several standards which don’t strictly speaking use English keywords.
I do recall hearing of a language described as “You can write in it in any language” I guess meaning the various bits of syntax are done with special characters? I forget which it is.
My first contact with computers in school was with a dialect (?) of LOGO that used commands based on Spanish. GD (giraderecha) instead of RT (right) or AV (avanza) instead of FD (forward).
APL exists. To me it’s about as fun as it is painful.
Setanta looks neat.
It does https://try-setanta.ie/
Do don’t have to first learn english. You could learn the basic without it but don’t except to be a good programmer if you are not confortable reading technical document in english.
No. The Soviets had one that was basically C but a decade early called Адрес (address). The higher-ups were skeptical of the concept of computers, though, so computing in the USSR languished anyway.
I think the Chinese have something going too. Mostly educated global people know some English anyway, though.
The higher-ups were skeptical of the concept of computers
It’s arguably dumber than that. The higher-ups treated R&D like any other centrally-planned ordeal, which meant a bunch of incredibly smart people in different countries were at each others’ throats for the privilege of trying to build a thing… rather than just building multiple things and picking the ones that worked.
When it was a 5-ton, room-filling affair - called the Small Electronic Calculating Machine, because all programmers are the exact same kind of dork - building exactly one kinda made sense. When the west had three competing 6502 minicomputers for like a hundred bucks each, it was just tight-fisted control for the sake of political grandstanding. The fuckin’ BBC rolled out a better centralized computing standard.
The root problem is having “a bicycle for the mind” in a country that restricts travel.
Mostly true, but Stalin also came right out with an essay that called it a fake capitalist concept, so that was part of it. I imagine Truman wouldn’t have gotten it either, but as you say in the US you don’t need everyone to agree something is a good idea to try it out.
The root problem is having “a bicycle for the mind” in a country that restricts travel.
This is the one I’m less sure about. They had censors but reading and learning approved content was also very encouraged, and in the early days it was a machine mostly just for number crunching. AFAIK computing languished roughly the same way as most basic research did, and Kateryna Yushchenko managed to invent something early anyway.
