I have been seeing plenty of guillhotine and mollotov jokes here, and as the title says, punching nazis.

I’ve been reading a book about nonviolence and anarchism, and he basically shows how we shouldn’t use violence, even in extreme cases (like neo nazis).

The main argument is that the means dictates the ends, so if we want a non violent (and non opressing) society, punching people won’t help.

And if it is just a joke, you should probably know that some people have been jailed for decades because of jokes like these (see: avoiding the fbi, second chapter of the book above).

Obviously im up for debate, or else I wouldn’t make this post. And yes, I do stand for nonviolence.

(english is not my first language, im sorry if I made errors, or wansn’t clear.)

(if this is not pertinent, I can remake this post in c/politics or something)

(the book is The Anarchist Cookbook by Keith McHenry, if you are downloading from the internet, make sure you download it from the correct author, there is another book with the same name.)

  • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    2 months ago

    Pot, meet kettle. What if I told you that you’re engaging in just as much gish gallopping straw-man discourse as you misconstrue my own arguments all the same? Seems quite clear, but I’m sure you’ll just conveniently cast aside any rebuttal as more straw-man. Convenient.

    • No, I didn’t say we can always legislate the problem away — I merely said punching a Nazis isn’t proven to be a better solution

    • No, I didn’t say that debating JD vance will stop bomb threats (weird tangential straw-man) — I merely said that punching nazis isn’t proven to be a better solution.

    These are, in fact, demonstrable straw-men to my arguments. (Say, how about we grow up and skip the whole straw-men deflective tropes?)

    Ultimately: You Still. Haven’t. Provided. A Single. Modicum. Of Evidence. That Punching Nazis. Reduces Nazis. That’s it. Nothing more

    Also, it’s incredibly interesting that suddenly you’re trying to shy away from the notion of punching a nazi isn’t preemptive. Quite intriguing. If you actually believed this, then we wouldn’t even have much issue.

    I think it’s really interesting you claim yourself to be an expert on this matter of fascism while exclaiming I am not; tell me, what are your credentials? What makes you think that? I’m not seeing any groundbreaking counter-arguments being presented here. I’m not seeing a single piece of evidence proving your case that “Punch a Nazi” is wise.

    Fascists and Nazis start off as weird outsiders that find solace and comfort in male power fantasy. You want to get rid of fascists? Get rid of the systemic forces that breed them, wealth inequality, underfunded education, dwindling employment and low pay.

    I don’t disagree with this.

    But once they’re a fucking Nazi all they understand is Nazi shit.

    There are literal organizations for people who’ve been duped by this shit and got out run by the very guys who got out of it.. The problem is your claim is just not true. Once you’re Nazi, it doesn’t mean you’re always a Nazi. But do yourself a favor and ask the founder of that organization what he thinks of the Punch a Nazi movement and whether it’s effective. Considering they once were one, they probably have a bit more insight, don’t you think? I’ll wait.

    Like I get it, I hate the scum too. From Boogaloo to Proud Boys to Oathkeepers to 1%ers to the base and so on… These people, uh, let’s just say aren’t deep thinkers. Yes, there are fuckwits across the globe from Russia to Germany. Yet there is a method to off-ramp these people from their path of radicalization, and I have yet to see any evidence that this “Punch a Nazi” thing reduces their numbers and doesn’t actually increase recruitment. The key is indeed making a more compelling case both to the fence sitters, as well as sincerely reaching out.

    Anyways, interesting conversation. Life and kids call and I think we’ve exhausted the points we both wanted to make.

    • aodhsishaj@lemmy.world
      3·
      2 months ago

      Oh no! Your social normative life pulls you away from the vocal and unfazed radical, however will we survive without your reasoned and heady logic?!?!

      • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        2 months ago

        Oh no! Your pissing into the wind and tilting at windmills from your computer chair is really fighting the good fight, buddy! I’m sure you’re totally punching nazis you total badass, you ;)

            • aodhsishaj@lemmy.world
              2·
              2 months ago

              Bruh that’s literally you right now.

              I’m compiling metadata on white nationalists for unicorn riot right now. This is literally my job. Of course I’m fucking weird you beige suburbanite.

              • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                2 months ago

                Cool memes, kid. Projecting again, I see.

                But alright, buddy sure, just don’t forget to film it. I’ll be really shocked to see you do anything more than memes and tilting at windmills.

                (still haven’t found a source, I see)

                • aodhsishaj@lemmy.world
                  2·
                  2 months ago

                  Anyways, interesting conversation. Life and kids call and I think we’ve exhausted the points we both wanted to make.

                  That’s you right? You said that?

                  Oh thank you white savior! You’re sacrificing so much time away from your wife and kids here in the meme mines!

                  • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    1·
                    2 months ago

                    Nah this is easy. Just snacking and bullshitting while having a few laughs.

                    Still no source, I see :)