I didn’t mean for this post to cause a bunch of arguing in the comments =(

I thought this was just some gallows humor (e.g. “Everything’s lovely except that I have to fear for my safety all the time”) type of shitpost that sounded similar to comments I’ve heard from women irl a lot.

    • blind3rdeye@lemm.ee
      9·
      2 years ago

      I’m sorry it bothers you like that.

      I personally don’t feel alienated or attacked at all by the kinds of comments you are describing. When I see a comment like “men murder women”, I think of it in the same kind of way comments like “humans are horrible” or “Australians are racist” or “young people have no attention span”… That is to say it describes a trend or someone’s perception of a tendency but does not refer to any specific individual.

      People aren’t saying these things to attack you. They are saying them to communicate their own feelings of being unsafe. And to be frank, feeling that you shouldn’t go for a walk at night because it is too dangerous is a pretty serious thing which has obvious negative effects - and the concern is based in reality. It isn’t just a perception problem. So we should take these comments seriously - not just complain about the people saying them.

    • KomfortablesKissen@discuss.tchncs.de
      5·
      2 years ago

      You are not alone in feeling that. Everyone being angry about this in here probably feels the same. And it’s incredibly ingenuine to on one hand say this post communicates feelings about fear of going outside and/or men, while simultaneously dismissing feelings of anger at being called a murderer.

      My own comment being dismissive of this post (because it’s a shitpost, that’s the literal community here) was deleted.

      Another one where I say “women lie” is being downvoted and it was (softly) implied I’m a murderer for saying this (The comment says “You are the man we are afraid of”, context is “men like to murder” as of the OP). The reply and votes to the “women lie” one means people do in fact notice that an overgeneralization hurts. They just don’t care if it hurts men. Presumably because “men are murderers” and are thus not allowed a voice besides belittling themselves.

      It’s just sad.

        • KomfortablesKissen@discuss.tchncs.de
          2·
          2 years ago

          I get that. I found myself on the side of vegans after a post mocked them for being a vegan while the nature they’re protecting is not, and comments then clowning on the vegans that showed up. “How do you know they’re vegan? They’ll tell you.” Kind of stuff. I’m not vegan but I really don’t like this kind of baiting.

          My comments were way better received then.

          I like what you wrote in the other comment, btw.

        • KomfortablesKissen@discuss.tchncs.de
          2·
          2 years ago

          Your assumption is yours to make, I was being deliberately ambiguous. My point was “men like murdering” sounds like a fact, but isn’t. Just as “women lie” sounds like a fact, but isn’t.

          the difference is your generalization isn’t based in statistical fact.

          The OP isn’t, either. There is no difference. Both are damaging overgeneralizations. Even though more women (because its easier) do lie (again, ambiguous. Can be about how their food tasted) way more often than men do murder, both are damaging overgeneralizations. One more than the other.

          Also:

          it’s statistically common enough

          You are referencing statistics. For the second time. Provide them.

          you are harming women by doing this.

          No, you just feel like that. Me arguing that I don’t want to be called a murderer because of my penis is not a downplay of rape. You did that part all on your own.

          it does not harm men to point out what a significant enough amount of them to be dangerous to women at large are doing.

          That’s a lie. Also, how does that fit in with me harming women by pointing something out? We are talking about the sentence “men like murder”, which is rightfully being under fire. You could say this is a shitpost, but your comment is not.

          you are not personally affected by women saying that men are violent or murderers

          Lie. Here you also try to justify the post as the truth. Just for future reference.

          but women are personally affected by your exaggerated claims of dishonesty

          How? And how am I not affected by you denying my experience?

          violence that they are statistically far more likely to experience.

          Are you talking about rape or murder? If you talk about murder, like the OP, that’s again a lie.

            • KomfortablesKissen@discuss.tchncs.de
              1·
              2 years ago

              You are being disingenuous again. Because you keep piling up new things and also because:

              You, in particular, are not being called a murderer, because the OP clearly says “men” and not “all men.”.

              If that were the case, why did you find fault at the assumed statement of “women lie about rape”? I didn’t say “all”. If you believed what you just wrote to be true, you wouldn’t have brought this up. The OP was a blanket statement that included me. For nothing other than having a penis. Also, don’t forget that one comment that implied this to me directly.

              You are however contributing to the problem by being dismissive and making a discussion about women’s safety about you

              Yeah, no. Learn how to make a discussion without accusations, like the accusation that was done in the OP, and then you can argue that. I realize you didn’t make the initial accusation, but you are defending it, and are also trying to make it into a “woman experience” which should somehow make it above reproach. That’s low.

              which is why women should be afraid of you since you are clearly self-serving and have no empathy for and understanding of their plight.

              Defending myself being called a murderer is self-serving and makes me without empathy and women should be afraid of me. What?

              Please explain to me how women talking about violence from men affects you personally.

              Oh, depends. If a friend asks for help in a current situation I can lend a helping hand. If a friend experienced something like this I can lend an ear and a shoulder. On the internet I can at least listen. And I do.

              In this case someone was accusing me of being a murderer for having a penis, and you keep telling me that that’s not what’s happening. If you want to be listened to by me you need to tone down the accusations. To zero. Except if I did something, then I will take the blame. But I didn’t, so I won’t.

              I can tell you how exaggerating your claim is harmful toward women, since because of the disproportionate violence and sexual abuse they face from men, they often find themselves having to speak on their experiences, and often aren’t believed thanks to unfounded biases like yours.

              Then don’t exaggerate it. What does that have to do with me? Also, you are cultivating a bias in me right now, not unfounded. It does only include you, in case that makes you feel better.

              The difference is that your claim is grossly exaggerated to appear equal to the OP’s claim, which actually has statistic validity

              It is not, because the OP has none. Even though men murder women more often than women murder women (which is a statistical truth), this isn’t what was stated in the OP. “Men love to commit murder” was the OP. There is no fact stated. Definitely not a statistically backed one.

              The OP’s only mistake is specifying murder, which isn’t the only threat of violence at the hands of men a woman would potentially (and has a good chance of having to) face walking alone at night, but anyone who isn’t 12 should be able to understand the use of hyperbole in a motherfucking shitpost.

              The OP made many mistakes which qualified it as a proper shitpost. I am not condemning that, I just don’t like it, as stated. I am condemning you.

              The intention is clear. it is not safe for women because of violence from men.

              That is the intended feeling, yes. Incredibly bad delivery, a shitpost even, but yeah that’s it. Feel free to feel, I guess.

              Put the statistics into the relevant parts of your comment next time. I won’t build your argument for you.

              This will be my last reply in this particular thread. I guess anyone reading won’t be reading the essays we wrote, and I’m feeling you are arguing in bad faith here. Have a nice day.

    • Snowclone@lemmy.world
      5·
      2 years ago

      Imagine if you had to deal with actually being targeted as a minority or woman. You’d be so mad, dude.

        • Snowclone@lemmy.world
          2·
          2 years ago

          I’m not angry at women for fearing violent abuse from men. I think you’re misdirecting this A LOT. If as a person you hear ‘‘men might kill me’’ and you think ‘‘poor poor men, why can’t they catch a break’’ your problem isn’t passive adittudes to bigotry, it’s having no idea that other people have problems and fears and threats and they are as upset about them as you would be in their shoes.

            • SouthEndSunset@lemm.ee
              2·
              2 years ago

              How many examples are there of trans people raping children?

              How many examples of men raping women are there?

              I’m a male and I’m not getting wounding up about this. Grow up.

            • Snowclone@lemmy.world
              1·
              2 years ago

              Are you mad at trans people when they say they aren’t going to be safe in a men’s bathroom? Because they won’t be. I Don’t know why it’s the man part of the statement that you are so upset by. I’m also a man. I’m not hurt by this entirely justified fear that women have.

              AGAIN. You are attacking women for fearing men, because they aren’t being sensitive enough to men while expressing fear for their life. This isn’t about men’s feelings. It’s about the women’s feelings. It’s OK to express entirely justified fears.

              I’ve been a person who’s had to help document stalking, to help get restraining orders, to put policy in place to prevent men targeting young women. This is a part of running any open to the public business where women work, or frequent. You have to know this as a matter of business management that when a worker or shopper says ‘‘I don’t know this man following or talking to me, and I’m getting scared’’ that you need to take it seriously, and also be aware your two steps behind. It shouldn’t get to that point.

              You have to notice when a guy comes in twice to talk to the same cashier, you have to pull them off the floor everytime he comes back, and if he asks once about that staff member, you HAVE to start paperwork. That’s the crucial point. That’s where if you do nothing, someone can get hurt or killed.

              THAT EARLY is when you need to have paperwork, offical trespassing complaints, restraining orders, that’s when you need to know that man has been pushed back enough to pull his head out of his ass and realize the high school or college age girl at a shirt folding store isn’t going to fall in love with him, and some pressure to let him know, you’ve already been caught, you can’t get away with it, you’ll never get away with it.

              Women deal with this EVERY SINGLE DAY they go out into public alone. I had to learn this. I had no idea it was this bad, I childishly thought cat calling was a thing that only happened in like three different streets in NYC or Boston. Not so. There’s guys with a wife and kids in his 40s driving to work in my small town who will roll down their window and scream obscene things at high school kids they think are hot walking to school.