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ERROR: Earth.exe has crashed@lemmy.dbzer0.com to No Stupid Questions@lemmy.worldEnglish · 7 months ago

Is it possible to have a "free speech" platform that simultaneously stops "hate speech"?

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Is it possible to have a "free speech" platform that simultaneously stops "hate speech"?

ERROR: Earth.exe has crashed@lemmy.dbzer0.com to No Stupid Questions@lemmy.worldEnglish · 7 months ago
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  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    No. “Hate speech” is an intentionally broad term designed to be abused and weaponized against unpopular speech.

    A better approach would be more specific. No racist speech. No homophobic speech. No misogynistic speech. Etc. Leaving it open ended and subjective is setting up for failure.

    • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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      7 months ago

      Leaving it open ended and subjective is setting up for failure.

      Having a specific list always misses something, and bad actors will find ways to abuse the gaps in that list.

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Bad actors also abuse the rules when they’re too broad.

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          7 months ago

          No they don’t. The argument is that good actors get overly punished for doing things that shouldn’t be illegal yet are. You’re not even being logically consistent in your arguments.

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            They absolutely do. One of the best ways to get a community banned on these platforms is to get the rules as ambiguous as you can, and then flood the community with bots breaking the rules.

            • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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              7 months ago

              It’s Twitter, there are no communities, what are you talking about?

              • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Speaking broadly about social media.

                • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                  7 months ago

                  At the societal level with hate speech laws you can’t use bots though. You’re going to have to waste the courts time by wasting real people’s time dragging them in front of judges for protest actions. Eventually the courts will just make it a fine that police can quickly issue.

                  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    Sure you can. These bots are called “lawyers.” Zionists and Scientologists being extreme examples of abusing the courts and ambiguous laws to produce similar results.

    • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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      7 months ago

      Completely and utterly false.

      Every single western country outside of America has hate speech laws without issue.

      A) they are not that open ended and subjective

      B) the idea that laws can’t be open ended, subjective, or governed through intent and spirit of the law, is only the case in the dumbass American legal system that has been intentionally ruined by simple minded Republicans, which insist on every edge case being explicitly covered by a law or legislation because they know that makes it impossible to effectively write laws or govern.

      • remon@ani.social
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        7 months ago

        Every single western country outside of America has hate speech laws without issue.

        So does the US. Just not for ordinary people.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threatening_government_officials_of_the_United_States

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          7 months ago

          Those would not be considered hate speech laws in other countries, just normal no-uttering-threats laws. Hate Speech laws typically protect against inciting hatred or violence against an identifiable group, actually uttering threats is typically a different broader law.

      • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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        7 months ago

        You get crazy things in other countries though, like truth not being a defense for libel\slander.

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          7 months ago

          In which countries is that the case?

          • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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            7 months ago

            UK is the notable one.

            • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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              7 months ago

              The UK is the weird outlier but there is still a defense of truth in the UK. The difference is that the person accusing you of defamation doesn’t have to prove that you’re wrong and you do have to prove that you’re right.

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Love the timing making it so easy to disprove your argument. Just look at the flood of European countries abusing broad and ambiguous hate speech laws to crush dissent and crack down on criticism of Israel.

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          7 months ago

          You’re talking about the one instance of Germany ruling that a single controversial slogan was hate speech?

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            LoL. One instance?!

            https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/uk-new-laws-police-palestine-protests-would-damage-free-speech-watchdog-warns

            https://theintercept.com/2017/08/29/in-europe-hate-speech-laws-are-often-used-to-suppress-and-punish-left-wing-viewpoints/

            https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/eu-pledges-help-israel-suppress-criticism

            https://truthout.org/articles/jewish-anti-zionist-activist-describes-his-arrest-under-uks-anti-terror-law/

            https://www.newarab.com/news/uk-israeli-academic-arrested-after-speech-gaza-protest

            • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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              7 months ago

              These are mostly incidents of people publicly expressing support for Hamas, and being arrested for expressing support for a designated terrorist organization, and pretty much all confined to the UK, which has some of the weakest individual protections in the EU / western world.

              They also don’t have Nazi parades down their streets in 2024.

              • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Ahh. You’re a hasbara bot.

                https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-far-right-britain-lawyer-keir-starmer-violence-liverpool-muslims-cardiff/

                • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                  7 months ago

                  Ah, you’re so terminally online that you brand anyone who mildly disagrees with you a ‘bot’.

                  Tho fair point about the EDL.

                  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    No, not at all.

    • 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      No. “Hate speech” is an intentionally broad term designed to be abused and weaponized against unpopular speech.

      Ur absolutly right.

      A better approach would be more specific. No racist speech. No homophobic speech. No misogynistic speech. Etc. Leaving it open ended and subjective is setting up for failure.

      Unfortunatly that can be abused just as easily and an overly broad term.

      Thus i would personaly draw the line at preventing speach that calls for or incites actionable physical violence.

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Makes sense to me.

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